[News] Feral Children - what to do?

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Nicaragua with a murder rate 6x that of the UK, and Costa Rica 9x - are you sure...?

But if it's the poor being murdered it doesn't count.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

When I worked with social services and LAC (in the last decade) they were all certain that problems with parenting and children were being made far worse due to Sure Start and other services stopping and cuts to roles that support vulnerable families.

I’m not disagreeing. I’m just saying the world has changed and we face challenges now that didn’t exist 5 years ago let alone 30. Parents often don’t even know what their kids are doing, who their influences are etc. Too easy to blame the parents and too easy to blame lack of youth clubs. Would this generation even go to youth clubs ? As is often the case on NSC people are giving opinions when they don’t understand any of the modern challenges of being a parent, teenager or teacher. I don’t want to get more specific for obvious reasons.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Should society be paying for activities to distract young kids from committing violent assaults as shown in the video?

As a child, apart from a few months at Scouts, I wasn't a member of any clubs or sports teams. Apart from a caution 35 years ago I have never been in trouble and certainly not committed any vicious assaults. For a few, having some youth facility may well provide a distraction and prevent them committing serious crime but for the majority, I'm not so sure. Look at how many kids just sit in their bedrooms glued to their mobiles or other devices rather than going to the local park for a kickabout.

If we ressurect the youth club, the boxing club etc would they come? I doubt it.

I am not going to watch the OPs video but I will comment that people seem to be generalizing from the particular. I don't believe for a moment that most kids are violent or that most kids are victims. And there is the classic emote (may have been from Icy) with a range of draconian solutions followed by the serious comment that he has no solution. Of course he doesn't. Because this is an event, not the norm. I can post some links to the Keith Lyon murder if anyone thinks that kids committing grotesque assaults is a new thing.

Look, this is a clickbait thread using a specific nasty event, the sort of gratuitous bollocks that makes me put such posters on ignore. We really don't have to find a solution to extreme bad behaviour, on NSC, today. We really don't.

 

[The Clamp]

Should society be paying for activities to distract young kids from committing violent assaults as shown in the video?

As a child, apart from a few months at Scouts, I wasn't a member of any clubs or sports teams. Apart from a caution 35 years ago I have never been in trouble and certainly not committed any vicious assaults. For a few, having some youth facility may well provide a distraction and prevent them committing serious crime but for the majority, I'm not so sure. Look at how many kids just sit in their bedrooms glued to their mobiles or other devices rather than going to the local park for a kickabout.

If we ressurect the youth club, the boxing club etc would they come? I doubt it.

They are certainly not a panacea and you’re right in that they won’t catch all the children. But social clubs and organisations are, among other things, useful places to observe behaviour and identify vulnerable children early on. They also provide a safe place for potential victims of violence.

It also reduces the risk of things like grooming gangs etc. One of the biggest reasons kids get in trouble or become victims these days is because nobody is watching.

It may also give these violent kids an alternative place to go. If home is an unattractive prospect due to negligent parenting or abuse, they’ll hang about in parks or on streets. Angry. Frustrated. Bored. Vulnerable to commit or become victims of crime.

The signs can be picked up by youth workers if they come to the clubs. And it may well present some of them with an alternative to battering other kids.

I understand that doesn’t work for many of the “feral” kids and I may sound like a liberal old softy but I see a link, even if it’s one that isn’t a catch all.

 

[BLOCK F]

I’m not disagreeing. I’m just saying the world has changed and we face challenges now that didn’t exist 5 years ago let alone 30. Parents often don’t even know what their kids are doing, who their influences are etc. Too easy to blame the parents and too easy to blame lack of youth clubs. Would this generation even go to youth clubs ? As is often the case on NSC people are giving opinions when they don’t understand any of the modern challenges of being a parent, teenager or teacher. I don’t want to get more specific for obvious reasons.

So virtually no one voicing an opinion on this subject knows anything about anything?
A sweeping assumption, I suggest.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

So virtually no one voicing an opinion on this subject knows anything about anything?
A sweeping assumption, I suggest.

I am not saying that. I am saying they are giving opinions when they do not work with children. The thread is about an incident and people are giving opinions without knowing any about the circumstances or anything about communities such as the one in the article. They are simply airing prior political opinions. I thought that was similar to the opinion you were expressing. Personally I would want to know more before I generalized so I would have more questions than answers.

 

[BLOCK F]

I am not saying that. I am saying they are giving opinions when they do not work with children. The thread is about an incident and people are giving opinions without knowing any about the circumstances or anything about communities such as the one in the article. They are simply airing prior political opinions. I thought that was similar to the opinion you were expressing. Personally I would want to know more before I generalized so I would have more questions than answers.

Some have aired political opinions and, yes, I said so in my post. Nevertheless, to say that people are giving opinions because they don’t understand any of the modern challenges of being a parent or teacher, is, in my opinion, a step too far.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I’m not disagreeing. I’m just saying the world has changed and we face challenges now that didn’t exist 5 years ago let alone 30. Parents often don’t even know what their kids are doing, who their influences are etc. Too easy to blame the parents and too easy to blame lack of youth clubs. Would this generation even go to youth clubs ? As is often the case on NSC people are giving opinions when they don’t understand any of the modern challenges of being a parent, teenager or teacher. I don’t want to get more specific for obvious reasons.

Problems with youths have always existed. The biggest difference is females getting so violent. One family we failed with completely on that council estate went to prison for murdering the daughter's boyfriend.

I can remember living in Portsmouth for about a year in the mid1950s. I was about 6 or 7 and on my way home from school three boys grabbed hold of me, lit a match and threatened to set fire to my coat the next day if I didn't bring a shilling to school.
I was terrified and told my Dad who happened to be home on leave. He went to the school where the head teacher told him it was because children were growing up without a father in the house. My Mum insisted on moving back to Brighton.
Anecdotal yes, but still true.
Teddy boys, knife gangs all prevalent in the 50s.

 

[Wrong-Direction]

Not popular but a mass cull of c**** would help..

Sent from my SM-A326B using Tapatalk

 

[Baldseagull]

Eh?
Well,I’m not blaming Tony Blair and I don’t think one can entirely blame any lack of police officers on behaviour of this sort.
Some of the problem must surely lie with the parents of these miscreants. Not all of it, but certainly they must bear some responsibility.
There is a creeping lack of respect for anyone who is seen to be in authority from some. Teachers for example,are taking all kinds of abuse from ‘ feral parents’. A general disregard for what is morally right or wrong seems to be rife in certain sections of the community and that is not confined to those who are less well off.
Where I do agree that politics comes into it, is the dreadful example of our soon to be gone PM. He is a person who is devoid of a moral compass. However, I don’t think that any Government, of any shade, can be wholly blamed for what is really just fu—-ng disgraceful behaviour by ‘feral youth.’

You complained of Partisan political comments, there is only one party that these kids have grown up under since they were toddlers, my point is it isn't because anyone is a left wing partisan that Tories get the blame for the failings. The parents of the victims are complaining about inaction on the part of the Police.

 

[portlock seagull]

Not popular but a mass cull of c**** would help..

Sent from my SM-A326B using Tapatalk

I think that would be MOST welcome actually!

 

[Baldseagull]

Not popular but a mass cull of c**** would help..

Sent from my SM-A326B using Tapatalk

Are you sure you would survive the cull?

 

[Cheshire Cat]

 

[Super Steve Earle]

https://institute.global/policy/reb...ts-time-put-anti-social-behaviour-back-agenda

I know that this will get flamed because it is linked to Blair but removing the war criminal thing, it makes some interesting points.

Sent from my M2010J19CG using Tapatalk

Not just the war criminal thing - the list is endless. But good to see him do something useful at last.

 

[BadFish]

I am not going to watch the OPs video but I will comment that people seem to be generalizing from the particular. I don't believe for a moment that most kids are violent or that most kids are victims. And there is the classic emote (may have been from Icy) with a range of draconian solutions followed by the serious comment that he has no solution. Of course he doesn't. Because this is an event, not the norm. I can post some links to the Keith Lyon murder if anyone thinks that kids committing grotesque assaults is a new thing.

Look, this is a clickbait thread using a specific nasty event, the sort of gratuitous bollocks that makes me put such posters on ignore. We really don't have to find a solution to extreme bad behaviour, on NSC, today. We really don't.

This. I have read a few posts on here and there seems to be a prevailing view that kids are worse, more feral and more violent that previously. Our collective experience cannot possibly determine this but there must be some data that shows this one way or the other.

Anecdotally I feel like this discussion has been going on since Moses was a boy. They said it about Teddy Boys, they said it about Punks, Skinheads, Casuals, Goths (alright not Goths as they never went outside), they said it about Ravers, Crusties, I won't go on but you get the idea.

Sent from my M2010J19CG using Tapatalk

 

[BadFish]

They are certainly not a panacea and you’re right in that they won’t catch all the children. But social clubs and organisations are, among other things, useful places to observe behaviour and identify vulnerable children early on. They also provide a safe place for potential victims of violence.

It also reduces the risk of things like grooming gangs etc. One of the biggest reasons kids get in trouble or become victims these days is because nobody is watching.

It may also give these violent kids an alternative place to go. If home is an unattractive prospect due to negligent parenting or abuse, they’ll hang about in parks or on streets. Angry. Frustrated. Bored. Vulnerable to commit or become victims of crime.

The signs can be picked up by youth workers if they come to the clubs. And it may well present some of them with an alternative to battering other kids.

I understand that doesn’t work for many of the “feral” kids and I may sound like a liberal old softy but I see a link, even if it’s one that isn’t a catch all.

One of the first things I was taught about teaching was that giving kids something engaging to do stops behaviour problems. The more engaged they are the less trouble they cause. It is still true today and is true across a wide range of settings and situations.

It's not a new idea either both Morrissey and the Bible talk about the devil finding work for idle hands.

Clubs, groups and sports keep kids busy and engaged. I have no doubt that they are beneficial for large swathes of youthful society. Especially as they usually contain the guidance, observation and advice of caring adults.

I read a stat about youth incarceration over here in Australia. Kids involved in sports clubs are far far far less likely to be in trouble with the police than those who are not.

Sent from my M2010J19CG using Tapatalk

 

[cloud]

Youth clubs are not just about keeping kids busy. They also provide the (male) role models that these kids probably don't have at home.

Though it does feel like good role models are also getting few and far between, possibly because of all the rules and regulations these days which stifle creativity and initiative.

 

[portlock seagull]

This. I have read a few posts on here and there seems to be a prevailing view that kids are worse, more feral and more violent that previously. Our collective experience cannot possibly determine this but there must be some data that shows this one way or the other.

Anecdotally I feel like this discussion has been going on since Moses was a boy. They said it about Teddy Boys, they said it about Punks, Skinheads, Casuals, Goths (alright not Goths as they never went outside), they said it about Ravers, Crusties, I won't go on but you get the idea.

Sent from my M2010J19CG using Tapatalk

This is a purity fallacy. You can endlessly redefine something by pointing to examples, impurities, as evidence to dismiss general truths eg people still get sick, yes, but medicine has unquestionably advanced

In this context, when I was young, there were some right little ‘erberts let’s say. Today, little ‘erberts still exist. But their impact is markedly greater because of eg drugs, the internet etc. This can’t simply be dismissed or denied because there have always been little ‘erberts in previous generations.

 

[BadFish]

This is a purity fallacy. You can endlessly redefine something by pointing to examples, impurities, as evidence to dismiss general truths eg people still get sick, yes, but medicine has unquestionably advanced

In this context, when I was young, there were some right little ‘erberts let’s say. Today, little ‘erberts still exist. But their impact is markedly greater because of eg drugs, the internet etc. This can’t simply be dismissed or denied because there have always been little ‘erberts in previous generations.

I wasn't dismissing anything, more asking the question if things are worse now than it used to be. if things are worse now then there will be data to back this up. I haven't drawn a conclusion as i haven't seen the relevant data. You obviously have, so can you share that so I can have a look?

A point of order here: I am not offering those historical erberts as proof that things are no worse today than they have been. I offer those examples as anecdotal evidence (not worth the screen it is written on) that the narrative has always been the same. All i have seen on this thread is that narrative and anecdotal evidence.

 

[BadFish]

An interesting look at the disparity between youth crime and society's perception of youth crime. https://www.local.gov.uk/sites/default/files/documents/young-people-crime-and-pu-c9b.pdf

As recognised by Anderson
et al. (2005) the problem of youth crime is not simply related to an
objective number of criminal actions. The ‘problem’ also depends on how we, as individuals and as
a society, feel about it – and how we deal with it. Dealing with the problem will require a two-
pronged approach. On one level, there is the need to reduce the incidence of youth crime and to
divert young people away from criminal activity. On another level, the public’s concern of youth
crime requires attention – and as we have found, the degree of concern can be unrelated to the
scale of crime. The recent Best Value User satisfaction survey (Department for Communities and
Local Government, 2007) found that 57 per cent of respondents reported young people hanging
around on the streets as a big or fairly big problem (this percentage was higher compared to other
antisocial behaviours, such as vandalism and littering)

It also talks about the difficulties experiences in trying to determine long term trends in youth crime.

Young people, crime and public perceptions: a review of the literature
Conclusions and recommendations
Long-term, self-report offending surveys for measuring youth crime
It is generally acknowledged that official crime statistics are subject to many inherent limitations,
such as changes to police recording practices and the absence of crimes unreported by the public.
Therefore, in order to shed light on the realities of youth crime, alternative sources of information
on youth offending behaviour are essential. Although self-report studies have been conducted, they
have been intermittent and therefore it is difficult to make confident assertions about long-term
trends in youth crime.

Given the number of variables around this subject I suppose this is hardly surprising.