'Fans not customers'

[Seagull on the wing]

I can understand what people mean by saying they view themselves as fans first and foremost but having supported the club through seven decades and remembering all too clearly the decrepitude of the Goldstone and being treated as an animal at grounds everywhere through the seventies and eighties my wife and I, now in our sixties, appreciate being treated and respected as customers. I suspect at heart that most fans want to be recognised as such mainly in order to allow some freedom to "misbehave" as in shouting standing and swearing - but also want the comforts of being customers, especially in the way they are treated by stewards/club tepresentatives. It is a tough balancing act needing give and take by both the club and the fans and with the exception of a small but vocal minority I believe that all parties have got iy about right most of the time.


The banner is an embarrassment and I suspect would not be supported by the vast majority

Please don't talk sense...you are baffling people with science....even if you are right

 

[Giraffe]

Picture:

 

[T soprano]

Not interested in all the politics I just go to watch the football When I can afford it, if I can't afford any game I'm not gonna start crying about it and blame Barber
Don't miss any games anyway if no cash stick it on the MasterCard worry about it another day

 

[Pavilionaire]

Some people will never be happy.

 

[Acker79]

I think if "you're a fan, not a customer", you can't ever use the excuse "I paid my money, I can moan if I want!" - only customers can take that position because customers are concerned with what their money buys, fans are not.

 

[blue'n'white]

Personally I'm glad that my club has opened it's eyes to the 21st century
We'd been limping along struggling to survive for years and now the powers that be are trying to run it along the lines of a business which is, let's face it, what it is.
And if we supposedly want to get into the Premier League (which is where many, to my mind completely misguided, posters on here believe is our divine right) the club HAS to be run on business grounds
And we ARE all customers - like it or not
(Although I'll admit that ANY club would be the last thing that a successful businessman would buy into because it's the surest way to lose money that I know of)

 

[Another Berkshire Seagull]

To be slightly contrivercial...I think supporters is a better word to describe most. Fan is short for fanatic and therefore the majority of the crowd IMO are not in this category.

Therefore customers is not really a dirty word here, just a nice generic word to describe those of us using the products/service that the club offers. with all we've been through in our past I wonder if supporters are just looking for the next protest rather than having any real grounds for it.

 

[Gullys Cats]

Good points, good post.

 

[kevo]

It's so important that the club doesn't "sell out". Premier League football is the goal, but it's not worth it if the club has to sell its soul to get there. By that I mean by ripping off the fans, many of whom are responsible for the stadium happening at all after years of campaigning, and also turning the genuine football experience into an plastic americanised "family day out" just because that's what they reckon gets bums on seats. It's our club and as long as we the fans are listened to, and carry on getting a good value genuine football experience, there shouldn't be a problem.

Excellent post.

 

[pigbite]

It's inevitable that the realities of running a modern day football club is going to breed a complex set of priorities and they are not always going to be compatible with each other. The club does have to operate as a business and therefore we technically are consumers and customers. But it's not really about pure labels - it's a mindset. The danger from the top down is that the fiscal side of things smothers the footballing heart and soul that is at the core of any club. But let's not forget it's a two way street and we want to have 30000 FANS in the stadium not 30000 fickle consumers.

Attila wrote a poem on the subject which was directed at Paul Barber but I think the message applies to all who are involved in football whether running, playing or supporting it. I hope he doesn't mind it being posted here...(it's on his Facebook page)


TERMS AND CONDITIONS

At the meal table, I’m a consumer.
I’m a customer when in a shop.
For the sake of our poor English language
That’s where corporate brand-speak should stop.
When I get on a train, I’m a passenger
(And to hell with their privatised plan)
At my gigs, I perform to an audience.
At the Albion, I am a fan.

A consumer will gulp down a product
Till a better one’s sold on TV.
A customer’s wallet goes elsewhere
If he’s not got the right guarantee.
But we fans will be there for a lifetime.
We’ll stand up for our rights come what may.
We’re the core, we’re not passive consumers -
And that’s why our club’s still here today.

 

[Charlies Shinpad]

I'm a Brighton Fan not a Brighton Customer

 

[El Presidente]

I don't think anyone should be embarrassed about the fact that this debate is going on. It's a sign of a healthy situation that people can be discussing openly what the relationship should be between the Albion and its supporters / customers. If we were owned by a bunch of "investors", the discussion would be pointless, because they wouldn't have any reason to be interested. Our owner is a fellow fan, not just a service provider, or a salesman of a product that his company manufactures.

It is good that people are not going to take all the decisions and bow our heads to the hierarchy, but I suspect that Tony Bloom's attitude is one of 'Fans AND customers'. I do think the approach of the club has been over aggressive in respect of some issues, (such as the legal threats against NSC with regard to the

NSC is a bitchfest far too much of the time, with some (not all) people demanding better players, better manager, better transport, cheaper tickets, bigger range of pies and real ale, but the only way that can be achieved is if either TB subsidises the club to a further degree (and he has already stuck in £150 million), or the books are balanced through a combination of revenue maximisation and cost control.

We can't have our cake and eat it.

 

[Simster]

I don't get this.

I WANT to be treated as a customer not just a fan. Customers come and go according to value offered. If all football fans simpy acted as customers the Premiership et al would struggle to extract the amount of money they do from fans. If the quality of the football, the catering, the transport, stewarding, view etc was not 'good value' mere customers would simply go elsewhere forcing clubs to reassess everything from how much they charge to whether they invest in safe standing. Unfortunately we act as 'fans' which means we will accept all sorts of rip off prices and treatment that we would never tolerate if it were not for a inexplicable love of our respective clubs.

Clubs treat us as fans because they can. It would be their worst nightmare if we acted purely as 'customers'.

Perhaps a better banner would read 'we are customers not just fans' ?

Totally agree with this. Excellent post.

And I think the plight of those Newcastle fans needs to be considered if you think being treated as a customer is something that shouldn't apply. Reading the OP, I think the whole point of the thread was to highlight how clubs can, have done and still do take advantage of the blind faith of their supporters at times. Atilla and his crap poetry doesn't speak for me.

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

Good thread. All rather subjective as there are no definitions - but most here understand the points being raised by the OP. Granny weatherwax gets it right for me - no-one is asking for a return to the eighties and being treated poorly severnside - but this club is where it is due, at least in part, to the actions of the fans. I have total faith in Tony Bloom - and I think it right that some of the new people in post are reminded occasionally where we have come from.

Nothing wrong with the banner for me.

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

It is good that people are not going to take all the decisions and bow our heads to the hierarchy, but I suspect that Tony Bloom's attitude is one of 'Fans AND customers'. I do think the approach of the club has been over aggressive in respect of some issues, (such as the legal threats against NSC with regard to the

Wow. Impressive control from the club.

 

[Hotchilidog]

I thought it was a pretty embarrassing and petty banner to be honest. I am a fan of Brighton and Hove Albion and nothing the club has done has made me feel any different. In fact I feel particularly well treated by the club at the moment. This football club is snow a multi million pound business which has increased in size massively over a short period of time and now has genuine aspirations to reach the top tier of English football, there will have to be change to accommodate this, it is unavoidable. All the armchair chairman on this board I would imagine have no experience of what it takes to run an organisation of this size, some of the criticism is pretty embarrassing to be honest.

 

[Simster]

Nothing wrong with the banner for me.

The sentiment is fine, but to go to the trouble of having a banner made and then hanging it up? Really?

We've all got our gripes but there doesn't appear to be anything so badly wrong that this was warranted, IMO. We still have an Ask The Club forum, the club is active in the community and none of the affiliate supporters clubs seems to have a strained relationship with the club as far as I can see.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

The sentiment is fine, but to go to the trouble of having a banner made and then hanging it up? Really?

We've all got our gripes but there doesn't appear to be anything so badly wrong that this was warranted, IMO. We still have an Ask The Club forum, the club is active in the community and none of the affiliate supporters clubs seems to have a strained relationship with the club as far as I can see.

Agreed.

For me its very clear (and right) that we are all considered by the club as BOTH fans and customers. That's why you have not only Bloom and Poyet, but also Barber and Sugarman (Finance Director).

Poyet's job is to keep the fan in each of us happy, Barber's is to maximise the revenue from the customer in each of us. Bloom's at the helm is to oversee everything, ensuring that the balance between the two is achieved.

These are good people though, and on the whole, even the Directors on the business side of things ARE Albion fans.

Tony Bloom, Albion’s poker-playing chairman, has strengthened his hand and increased the expertise of the club’s board by adding two long-time associates as directors.

The appointments of London-based businessmen Adam Franks and Marc Sugarman have been ratified by existing board members.

Both have been advising the club and have been on the board of the stadium company for Falmer for some time. Bloom has described their appointments as “a logical step forward.”

Franks, 38, a qualified chartered accountant for 13 years, has known the chairman since they were at Manchester University together.

Bloom said: “Adam is finance director for all my companies. He will bring a lot to business decisions and financial decisions, particularly as we move on to Falmer. He is a very capable pair of hands.

“Adam works closely with me in many of my commercial ventures. He has become an Albion fan via his business relationship with me and he brings a wealth of experience to the table.”

Lifelong Albion fan Sugarman, 37, a former Oxford University student, is an equity analyst for Citigroup, with expertise in the media sector. Bloom said: “I have known Marc since I was a young kid. He is a Brighton boy who is living in London now.

 

[Medwayseagull]

The sentiment is fine, but to go to the trouble of having a banner made and then hanging it up? Really?

We've all got our gripes but there doesn't appear to be anything so badly wrong that this was warranted, IMO. We still have an Ask The Club forum, the club is active in the community and none of the affiliate supporters clubs seems to have a strained relationship with the club as far as I can see.

Having it made is a bit of an overstatement - it looks like someone dug around the garage, found an old tin of blue paint and then asked their mum if she had any old sheets they could use.
Good discussion on the principles of Fans v Customers on here but the embarrassing thing for me is that someone thinks you can sum it up in a tatty three word banner. Any neutral watching on TV who saw it would wonder what point was trying to be made in the context of the club's progression in the last few years.

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

The sentiment is fine, but to go to the trouble of having a banner made and then hanging it up? Really?

We've all got our gripes but there doesn't appear to be anything so badly wrong that this was warranted, IMO. We still have an Ask The Club forum, the club is active in the community and none of the affiliate supporters clubs seems to have a strained relationship with the club as far as I can see.

I feel well treated at present. My only gripes - are minor and are the booking fee and the card replacement fee. Nothing that would make me put up a banner. I am delighted with the way things are going and can see we need someone like Barber to provide the commercial nouse for a club moving in the direction we are. And I have great faith in Bloom to make sure we are on the right track. And I love Gus.

I respect the work of the AITC team, albeit with reservations about staffing levels, and I look forward to seeing further encouragement of local schools/football clubs with offers on tickets.

But at the same time - we are where we are because people care about our club - as fans not customers, and if someone wants to take a banner into the ground with that sentiment - that is fine by me. Like you I suspect - I can't get too excited either way.

And I do think the customer and fan debate is one that it is relevant.