[Albion] Fans' Forum follow-up on the season ticket sharing scheme

[chaileyjem]

This would of been so much easier but Brighton don’t do easy


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They make (for most season ticket holders) travelling by train or bus and buying by direct debit very easy indeed.

 

[Hotchilidog]

Yes of course I understand but it’s just all part of the being just a customer and not a fan that just winds me up

I am really sad you feel that way, as I do not relate to that point of view of at all. I am a fan, and I always will be.

 

[Justice]

The club have to buy all the tickets in advance and don't get refunds for tickets they don't sell. They projected that they wouldn't sell 9000.
In the forum they suggested the gap would be about £50K worth of tickets or the equivalent of 2 jobs or in your phrase "loose change".

You didn’t really answer the question, if it sells out the Albion will collect around £600k still think we would of sold 9000 with the chance to visit a new stadium for many.

 

[BN9 BHA]

A great analysis from Bozza. So bottom line is, if the club had raised every ST price by 20 quid, we would have thought that was very reasonable.
And then the club announce the sharing scheme is now free, most would have claimed a victory.

I definitely wouldn’t have thought it was reasonable, and wouldn’t have been one of the “most would have claimed a victory”

I have got 4 season tickets, myself, my wife and 2 sons over 18, I pay for the sons because one is at college and the other on a low wage while still training on an apprenticeship.
We all plan to go to all home games so this would have cost me an extra £80 for something I don’t want.
I honestly am not fussed if I miss the odd match and my seat is empty, any Albion fans I know go to games anyway. I’m not going to find some random to share my ST.

There must be many of our fans that want to go to every home game and don’t plan on sharing their ST.

 

[rippleman]

They make (for most season ticket holders) travelling by train or bus and buying by direct debit very easy indeed.

I can only presume that you don't travel by train - at least not to and from Brighton. It isn't easy at all. It involves a lot of queueing and waiting around and then being crammed, sardine-like, onto the trains. More trains (and 25 buses) with more carriages would probably make it easier.

We took 7K to MK Dons ffs! On what basis did the club conclude that there was no chance we would take 9K to a PL club, with a new ground, in the FA Cup?

 

[chaileyjem]

I can only presume that you don't travel by train - at least not to and from Brighton. It isn't easy at all. It involves a lot of queueing and waiting around and then being crammed, sardine-like, onto the trains. More trains (and 25 buses) with more carriages would probably make it easier.

We took 7K to MK Dons ffs! On what basis did the club conclude that there was no chance we would take 9K to a PL club, with a new ground, in the FA Cup?

I've travelled on the train to and from the Amex for 10 years. I don't have to bother with buying a ticket which i think is easy.
As for Spurs - well MK Dons tickets were £10, and i think only £1 for kids, it was 3pm Saturday and we were chasing promotion - but the club according to Jenny Gower (their head of supporter services) spent a very long time projecting likely ticket sales for Spurs and they do it for a living and concluded otherwise. So on that basis.

 

[Bozza]

I can only presume that you don't travel by train - at least not to and from Brighton. It isn't easy at all. It involves a lot of queueing and waiting around and then being crammed, sardine-like, onto the trains. More trains (and 25 buses) with more carriages would probably make it easier.

We took 7K to MK Dons ffs! On what basis did the club conclude that there was no chance we would take 9K to a PL club, with a new ground, in the FA Cup?

The MK Dons comparison was covered in the Fans' Forum...

- Club chasing promotion
- Saturday 3pm kick-off
- ...in spring
- £10 tickets
- easy transport

In contrast when the Spurs game was announced, many fans on here, on twitter and in direct communication with the club said they would not be going because travel is a hassle (essentially impossible by train), Spurs have no (or very limited) facilities for mass coach travel and the game is being broadcast on terrestrial TV. Additionallty there is still the "Covid factor" for some fans.

The club say that the rate of sales of tickets was not quick enough to warrant triggering taking the remaining 3,300 tickets, and there was no half-way house possible - it was 3,300 or nothing.

I agree with the club's view that we would not have sold out another 3,300, but it's anyone's guess how many would be taken up and how many would be left.

 

[chaileyjem]

You didn’t really answer the question, if it sells out the Albion will collect around £600k still think we would of sold 9000 with the chance to visit a new stadium for many.

I think you should take this up with Supporter Services [MENTION=24827]Justice[/MENTION] because it sounds like you want to point out to them how much the club earn from ticket sales for a match and you seem to imagine they are unaware of this.

 

[Lower West Stander]

Although the club have addressed the reasons for the sharing scheme, virtually no other club does it. From talking to mates who support other clubs, there is usually the ability to pass your season ticket on to someone who provides their personal details, but there's no money involved.

If they wanted to, the club could easily address the concerns they list without the need for money to change hands. As someone else has said, it doesn't even touch the sides when you get 50m for Ben White.

 

[SI 4 BHA]

I've travelled on the train to and from the Amex for 10 years. I don't have to bother with buying a ticket which i think is easy.
As for Spurs - well MK Dons tickets were £10, and i think only £1 for kids, it was 3pm Saturday and we were chasing promotion - but the club according to Jenny Gower (their head of supporter services) spent a very long time projecting likely ticket sales for Spurs and they do it for a living and concluded otherwise. So on that basis.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that up to the 6th round the gate money for the FA cup is 45% to each team and 10% to the FA? That being the case, had we bought and paid for all 9k of the tickets and had some left, our net outlay would only have been 55% of the unsold tickets. So for say 2k unsold, we would have paid £60k (assuming all are at £30 each with no adjustment for minors or OAPs) and of that £60k, we would get £27k back, so only £33k out of pocket. Under the circumstances, not really much of a finacial risk for an EPL club these days. I can quite understand you wouldn't take that risk for a league game, where all the gate receipts go to the home club, so maybe they just forgot it was the FA Cup...

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Yes of course I understand but it’s just all part of the being just a customer and not a fan that just winds me up

I know Barber refers to us as customers, and I can understand his argument, but I can’t say it materially affects me one bit. I can’t think of one instance where, if only I was fan, something would have been different.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

As an aside, whilst I was listening to the Fan Forum, die Frau said, of Barber, “who’s that? he comes across very well, makes some very good points.”

Just saying.

 

[chaileyjem]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that up to the 6th round the gate money for the FA cup is 45% to each team and 10% to the FA? That being the case, had we bought and paid for all 9k of the tickets and had some left, our net outlay would only have been 55% of the unsold tickets. So for say 2k unsold, we would have paid £60k (assuming all are at £30 each with no adjustment for minors or OAPs) and of that £60k, we would get £27k back, so only £33k out of pocket. Under the circumstances, not really much of a finacial risk for an EPL club these days. I can quite understand you wouldn't take that risk for a league game, where all the gate receipts go to the home club, so maybe they just forgot it was the FA Cup...

The club projected they would be left with a substantial amount of unsold tickets - they estimated the bill to the club for that would be around 50K (it might have been more , it might have been less and closer to the 33K you suggest but PB suggested it was something like the equivalent of 2 jobs) - Jenny Gower who was on the Zoom call with Paul Barber the other evening is the Head of Supporter Services and clearly had spent a lot of time going through multiple projections like you above concluding pros and cons of 5,700 tickets vs 9000. Obviously it would have been easier if Spurs had allowed us to land at something like 7000. But they didn't. See [MENTION=6886]Bozza[/MENTION] for other explanations in this thread about how they came to that conclusions. Her email if you want to make the case to her is supporter.services@brightonandhovealbion.com
Club perhaps understandably don't - from what i could tell from that call - agree that losing £33K or £50K on something like this is ok

 

[Mellor 3 Ward 4]

Thanks Bozza, appreciate the clarifications.

 

[BNthree]

Interesting disconnect between how we fans see the business of running a club and how the club themselves see it.

Fans: We got £50m for Ben White and £105m PL money so what difference does £50k make?
Club: We must minimise all losses possible (which is the proper way to run a business it must be said).

 

[Lower West Stander]

Interesting disconnect between how we fans see the business of running a club and how the club themselves see it.

Fans: We got £50m for Ben White and £105m PL money so what difference does £50k make?
Club: We must minimise all losses possible (which is the proper way to run a business it must be said).

Apart from Man U in this country, football is not a business. The financial metrics wouldn't work in any other type of company anywhere. Look at wages/turnover for example.

Virtually every club is loss making. Its all about enhancing the value of the club in question by doing well in the EPL and hopefully getting into Europe. Or laundering money like Newcastle.

Albion have no debt, but it depends how you measure it. We wouldn't be a sustainable operation without TB, no matter how you present it.

 

[Dave the OAP]

Haven’t got anyone that wants to share my ticket now, so my seat tends to be empty unless someone buys it on the exchange…which only happened once before, so don’t bother with that anymore.

 

[dazzer6666]

I can only presume that you don't travel by train - at least not to and from Brighton. It isn't easy at all. It involves a lot of queueing and waiting around and then being crammed, sardine-like, onto the trains. More trains (and 25 buses) with more carriages would probably make it easier.

We took 7K to MK Dons ffs! On what basis did the club conclude that there was no chance we would take 9K to a PL club, with a new ground, in the FA Cup?

True, but there really aren’t many PL games that you can get to 'easily' unless you live within walking distance. You're likely to be either going to be stuck in traffic or on crammed public transport (or queuing for some time to get on it, or have a long walk to get it) almost anywhere. I tend to drive to the Amex and most away games - getting away from ours has been quicker - and in some cases much quicker - this season than for example Villa (awful), Norwich, Leicester (awful) and Palace (coach - horrific) for certain. Saints and Chelsea were about the same for me (longer walk, easier getaway) and West Ham took an age due to the route they sent us on from the ground.

If you read most of the posts on here after the Spurs KO time was announced, the majority point towards people not going, or at least moaning about lack of trains etc.

 

[BeHereNow]

Fan buys season ticket when 16-17 games are on a Saturday. 10-12 of those games get to moved to an evening kick off. Fan can’t make evening games, leaving them with about 5-6 games to see all season. Fan wants to share his ticket with friend but doesn’t think it’s right that they should have to pay EXTRA for games they aren’t able to attend. Fan gives up season ticket and no one replaces them.

Judging by the amount of empty season ticket seats we see for evening games, this scenario could be the case with thousands.

I really hope not, but think this might lead to a massive rejection of season tickets. Surely that will lose the club more money.

Games are selling out again, now that Covid has died down. Villa sold out 4 days ago and there are aren’t many tickets on the exchange. Why? Because it’s a Saturday. You would think the club would be sympathetic to supporters when the games are moved for evening kick offs, but no.

FA Cup game: No precedent for taking 9,000 to a game like this. We’ve never had the chance! Barber also mentioned our PL average away attendance. I’m sure Morecambe considered their average away attendance when they took their allocation at Tottenham. Not sure how that’s relevant, or ever has been relevant to a big FA Cup tie. We took 35,000 to Wembley. Surely not, as we average about 27,000 fans at home. Besides, we sell out most of our away games. Piss poor answers regarding the ticketing, but must say it also looks like Tottenham were being twats.

 

[Wardy's twin]

Interesting disconnect between how we fans see the business of running a club and how the club themselves see it.

Fans: We got £50m for Ben White and £105m PL money so what difference does £50k make?
Club: We must minimise all losses possible (which is the proper way to run a business it must be said).

same disconnect when people are asking for the club to spend £30m+ on a top striker and also screw up the wage structure......