[News] Face Masks and Covid Passes to end in England from next Thursday

[Baldseagull]

I'm note sure what good it would do to keep them personally.

There has to be a point at which the decision to remove them is made and there will always be some out there arguing for longer. While we continue to be peppered with stats and diverse views from "experts" the argument will continue to be 2 way. There has to come a point where we all have to live with this as another illness we may get and vaccinations are now ready to all who want them.

NHS winter pressures are always there and hospital admissions drop off in any event as we get further into the year. We need to stop over focusing on Covid now and look at all the health backlogs its caused with people who have more severe illnesses (and a higher death chance) than Covid itself.

Otherwise we are just going to keep going round in circles.

I think you are expressing slightly contradictory views here, on the one hand you seem to be suggesting letting the chips fall where they may with Covid now, which might mean we have more numerous cases, depending on how well/long immunity holds up, and on the other hand, getting on with dealing with all other health issues, which will be difficult to do if we have current numerous covid cases, and long term covid illness in society.

I don't think services are being prioritised on covid currently, it is just adding another pressure that was not there previously, and reducing the number of cases is the best way to ensure services are available for other health issues, in my opinion.

 

[keaton]

No. Time to get on with things

Agreed. How would wearing a mask stop people doing this?

 

[Lower West Stander]

I think you are expressing slightly contradictory views here, on the one hand you seem to be suggesting letting the chips fall where they may with Covid now, which might mean we have more numerous cases, depending on how well/long immunity holds up, and on the other hand, getting on with dealing with all other health issues, which will be difficult to do if we have current numerous covid cases, and long term covid illness in society.

I don't think services are being prioritised on covid currently, it is just adding another pressure that was not there previously, and reducing the number of cases is the best way to ensure services are available for other health issues, in my opinion.

I don't think its a function of cases themselves. More of those dealing with them which is a prioritisation by the back door. NHS issues at the moment are more to lack of staff because of isolation than the incoming cases.

I know this is a discussion on face masks particularly but I just think we need to move away from it completely now and accept the presence of the virus as a new normal.

 

[Baldseagull]

I don't think its a function of cases themselves. More of those dealing with them which is a prioritisation by the back door. NHS issues at the moment are more to lack of staff because of isolation than the incoming cases.

I know this is a discussion on face masks particularly but I just think we need to move away from it completely now and accept the presence of the virus as a new normal.

The thread is more about if now is the right time to do that, and the truth is that we don't know, because we don't have the data, but it seems slightly too soon to me, the peak is over in London, but not everywhere.

 

[Wardy's twin]

I genuinely don't see the relevance of the number of deaths in 2020 caused by the original and alpha variants in an unvaccinated population. Not when we are talking about what happens in future.

The numbers prove my point - that people will demand restrictions such as masks, school closures, mass testing, and so forth, for flu and other diseases. The week ending 7th January is the peak of infection rates - 3.7m people, or 5.5% of the population, had been proved to have covid in the 28 days leading up to it, and who knows how many more had had it but not been tested. And yet the number of deaths caused by the virus was 712. The worst week of the most widespread outbreak, 712 deaths. This compares with your average of 510 per week in 2019, the last year not skewed by coronavirus precautions. Flu and pneumonia kill average 510 per week, good weeks and bad, winter and summer, and that is surely more than omicron variant can manage on a consistent basis. That is why I am afraid that people will insist on coronavirus precautions being extended for flu.

I don't think the numbers prove your point at all. You pick the week with the lowest number of deaths to prove a point which I don't understand. If we look at the last week of figures roughly 1550 people have died of COVID , these are people family and loved ones all of them will have died prematurely some maybe a few months but some might have had many years to live. If you proposing the point they would have die anyway then it might be news to you but we are all going to die so if you follow that logic then why do any medical treatment or indeed why actually live at all.

The polarisation around COVID is quite simply those that don't give a f*ck about others and those that do and/or have been touched by COVID in some shape or form. I know which side I am on .

 

[dsr-burnley]

I don't think the numbers prove your point at all. You pick the week with the lowest number of deaths to prove a point which I don't understand. If we look at the last week of figures roughly 1550 people have died of COVID , these are people family and loved ones all of them will have died prematurely some maybe a few months but some might have had many years to live. If you proposing the point they would have die anyway then it might be news to you but we are all going to die so if you follow that logic then why do any medical treatment or indeed why actually live at all.

The polarisation around COVID is quite simply those that don't give a f*ck about others and those that do and/or have been touched by COVID in some shape or form. I know which side I am on .

If all your argument boils down to is that you're right because you're a good person and I'm wrong because I hate everyone, then you're wrong. "I am right and anyone who disagrees is a bad person" is not a helpful attitude. Just because your heart is in the right place does not mean that you have all the answers.

The point of the week ended 7th January is that it is the most recent week for which we have the numbers from the ONS. Yes, it's a lower number than we had this time last year when there were no vaccines and we were still on alpha variant, but the unvaccinated alpha figures are not relevant for future plans. Future plans are based on current and predicted future position. We cannot cure the people who died last year, nor should we try to.

Perhaps where you and I differ on figures is that you might be assuming that everyone who has a covid test in the last 28 days, who then dies of covid, has died because of covid. This is false. When 6% of the population have had a positive covid test in the last 28 days, we must expect (all else being equal) 6% of the weekly deaths to have died of other causes and covid was a random element. Typically we have about 14k deaths per week, so we would expect about 800 of the deaths caused by other causes to have had a positive (but irrelevant) covid test in the past 28 days. You can argue about whether the number should be higher or lower, but it's certainly not nil.

 

[goldstone]

Reference the question, wearing masks and having to show covid passes is not "living life normally".

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

If all your argument boils down to is that you're right because you're a good person and I'm wrong because I hate everyone, then you're wrong. "I am right and anyone who disagrees is a bad person" is not a helpful attitude. Just because your heart is in the right place does not mean that you have all the answers.

The point of the week ended 7th January is that it is the most recent week for which we have the numbers from the ONS. Yes, it's a lower number than we had this time last year when there were no vaccines and we were still on alpha variant, but the unvaccinated alpha figures are not relevant for future plans. Future plans are based on current and predicted future position. We cannot cure the people who died last year, nor should we try to.

Perhaps where you and I differ on figures is that you might be assuming that everyone who has a covid test in the last 28 days, who then dies of covid, has died because of covid. This is false. When 6% of the population have had a positive covid test in the last 28 days, we must expect (all else being equal) 6% of the weekly deaths to have died of other causes and covid was a random element. Typically we have about 14k deaths per week, so we would expect about 800 of the deaths caused by other causes to have had a positive (but irrelevant) covid test in the past 28 days. You can argue about whether the number should be higher or lower, but it's certainly not nil.

I have to be honest here. You have been regurgitating the same fake news on here for over a year now. The deaths figures have been debated in depth including detailed explanations of comparisons between excess deaths, the 28 day Government figure and GP certified deaths. I am certainly not going to get involved again but basically you are against everything you see as restricting your precious freedoms. The thing is though there is currently nothing that you are not allowed to do so maybe lay off the internet conspiracy theories for a bit.

 

[Wardy's twin]

If all your argument boils down to is that you're right because you're a good person and I'm wrong because I hate everyone, then you're wrong. "I am right and anyone who disagrees is a bad person" is not a helpful attitude. Just because your heart is in the right place does not mean that you have all the answers. I don't say whether I am good or bad my view of COVID is driven by nearly losing my wife to it and not wishing that on anyone else. It also influenced by what I have seen and heard in numerous visits to hospital

The point of the week ended 7th January is that it is the most recent week for which we have the numbers from the ONS. Yes, it's a lower number than we had this time last year when there were no vaccines its a lower number than the week either side of it this year and we were still on alpha variant, but the unvaccinated alpha figures are not relevant for future plans. Future plans are based on current and predicted future position. We cannot cure the people who died last year, nor should we try to. agreed but we should learn from history and the mistakes that were made and ensure we just don't accept the current 225 deaths a day

Perhaps where you and I differ on figures is that you might be assuming that everyone who has a covid test in the last 28 days, who then dies of covid, has died because of covid. This is false. When 6% of the population have had a positive covid test in the last 28 days, we must expect (all else being equal) 6% of the weekly deaths to have died of other causes and covid was a random element. Typically we have about 14k deaths per week, so we would expect about 800 of the deaths caused by other causes to have had a positive (but irrelevant) covid test in the past 28 days. You can argue about whether the number should be higher or lower, but it's certainly not nil. I agree its not black & white as the cause of death is often a complex set of circumstances so someone could die of heart failure 3 months after having COVID which had weakened their heart and that probably would not be recorded as a COVID death but COVID did the damage . Equally there would be someone who has a weak heart and then gets COVID and dies within 28 days of a test will be flagged as a COVID death . To me that's not the real issue, to me the current average is 225 deaths per day , 9000 hospital beds occupied are too high to say we should ease up and I think that is the opinion of most medical people

We may have to agree to disagree.

 

[crodonilson]

[tweet]1484432072735399936[/tweet]

 

[Raleigh Chopper]

Think the point is that it’s ok to get it as it’s pretty mild . Same as flu and colds

Obviously if super vulnerable and elderley then get a high protection mask to ensure ok but then those people at risk particularly in winter anyway

The point is it’s time for the fear to go for the 99% who would have something similar to a cold .

The fear is what’s holding back everything

Worked today for a couple I know.
Both fully jabbed and decided to remove their masks.
Both caught Omicron and self isolated but the wife is very ill with a dreadful chest infection, they were up all night doctor is keeping a very close eye on her for long covid and if she does not improve or gets worse then she is off to hospital.
She has no previous health issues.
Johnson and the deniers can stick the data up their arse, the government has used the data to suit there own agenda right through the pandemic and the latest rules are clearly wrong but used to get Johnson off the hook.
Is it that hard, that painful to slip a mask on?
Masks don't work, so dentists, surgeons and other medical people have worn masks for years, any idea why?
Jesus, Mary and Joseph (and the wee donkey) I can't belive how so many people can be so gullible, so stupid, so look at me and so ridiculously idiotic to think that slipping a mask on when 85,000 were infected today somehow infringes their freedom.

 

[dsr-burnley]

We may have to agree to disagree.

Fine. Except that we don't yet kow whether the ONS statistics that show 712 deaths in the week to January is lower than the week to 14th January because the week to 14th January isn't out yet. The ONS takes its numbers from death certificates and people who have died because of covid. This is lower than the figures you are looking at because (I presume) you are looking at deaths of anyone who has had a covid test in the past 28 days regardless of cause of death.

 

[The Wizard]

Where is the real world evidence that vaccine passports work?

Countries that have the strictest covid passport policies have had massive Omicron outbreaks, there is zero real world proof that they do anything. Same as mask mandates, American states that have mask mandates and others that don’t, have rates that are near the same or in some cases maskless state’s actually have lower rates.

The government are now reaping what they have sown with their campaign of fear and vaccine reliance has now programmed the public into feeling unsafe to live in the old ‘normal’ which I find very sad indeed, seen as going by early numbers this variant appears to be less deadly to the vulnerable than flu and I don’t remember ever feeling unsafe to go to the supermarket because of that, nor would most others.

Perhaps this polls result is more aligned with the age groups mostly on here, which I guess is understandable but sad none the less.

 

[Icy Gull]

I will continue to wear a mask but if others choose not to and they are not obliged to, that’s just the way it is

 

[Surf's Up]

Populist decision taken by a desperate man.

 

[Blue3]

I will continue to wear a mask in enclosed spaces people have done this for years in the Far East and has contributed to their swift actions when tackling outbreaks of all sorts of colds and flu’s, I think it’s a public duty to protect others

 

[trueblue]

I think your last sentence is now where we’re at, whether politicians are too scared to say so or not.

People are tired of and indifferent about Covid now. Those of us who might succumb to will eventually and I count my self in this potential category too. Life is fragile, it can be wiped out in a second in numerous ways for all of us. Somehow in recent decades we’ve lost sight of this and tried to compensate, deny almost, by proportioning blame on someone else eg government, surgeons, scientists…anyone but ourselves and the genetic lottery that overwhelmingly determines our longevity; or not.

There but for the grace of god go I…

Which completely misses the virologist’s point that we’re about two months of being careful from a situation where you wouldn’t need to be fatalistic about it. The chances that you’d ‘succumb eventually’ would be very unlikely with the virus all but gone from society because the vaccines and natural immunity combined had been given the time to take full effect.

 

[warmleyseagull]

Covid is over pandemically so there is no good argument for keeping masks.

Masks are a real bind for those of us who wear glasses or hearing aids. I wear both and have lost two hearing aids directly as a result of removing masks. They obstruct communication (many articles on internet - this one for example: https://www.healthline.com/health-news/covid19-face-masks-difficulties-people-hearing-impairments) and are a litter hazard. Get rid.

 

[jcdenton08]

Just did a positive LFT. Symptoms are runny nose and sore throat, which seems to be anecdotally likely to be omnicron.

 

[zefarelly]

I will continue to wear a mask but if others choose not to and they are not obliged to, that’s just the way it is

Darwinism at work.

My lad wears his mask at school ( and continues to do so ) some of his classmates are ditching them . . . Quel surprise, some of them tested positive this weekend. My lads clear. GCSE year and he's keen to stay fit and do well.

takes after his mother ;-)