Exclusion of a fan following incident at Brighton v Crystal Palace 27/09/11 [Merged]

[drew]

I am desperately trying to understand where Drew is coming from and the defence of the apparent indefenceable. The last posts suggest they think the bloke was still guilty of all charges.

You should get of your perch and read all my posts again then. You could also do yourself a favour and read the report again. No where have I said or suggested he was guilty of what he was originally charged with. The only comment I have made relates to the fact that none of this would have happened if he had just left his seat and gone to the lounge and made no comment to the Palace fan. Something I believe the IFO also concur with.

For the sake of clarity ( and trying desperately to understand your dogged support, for an issue where Mr.Hebberd was so utterly wrong ) ..........could you at least inform us, whether you have any connection with Mr. Hebberd.......?

Quite happy to confirm that I have no connection whatsoever with Mr Hebberd and the only time I have ever been in the same room as him was during the Amex presentations.

"protocols for dealing with disputes in the future" - these should have been in place - this type of process should have been in place at Withdean. The Albion did not start at the Amex.That's a fair comment but then the operations at the Amex are considerably different to the way the club was run before.

" I don't think the club were forced into making changes as I'm not sure the IFO have that authority but if they had kept the status quo then that would make them look even worse. " - just makes no sense on any levelMakes sense to me unless of course you are aware that the IFO can force clubs to change their procedures. All I was basically saying was that having been found to not have dealt with the matter fairly, only a completely arrogant organisation wouldn't change. The club did not come out of the original episode smelling of roses and would have looked even worse had they not introduced any changes. Why is that hard to comprehend?.

It seems like some of you are arguing that water is wet, and the other that the sky is blue.

I have no comment on Hebbard's position. But I do agree an important aspect of this whole situation is that the club have learned from their mistake. The report referenced the change in procedure, so it must have come about before the ruling, not as a result of it. Whether Hebbard's position is untenable or not and that the club have now changed their procedure are not mutually exclusive. It's not one or the other, but it's like some of you are trying to make it so to win an argument you don't need to have.

As for the initial incident, I don't know much about it, so will only say, I don't think I would get so worked up about opposing fans celebrating their team's success over us that I confront them about it, even for palace. By most accounts, it seems the majority of people managed to file out of the stand without confronting him, too.

Bingo. I wished I come up with the comment 'the club have learned from their mistake'.

I think a comment from the club is in order. It probably won't answer anything but at least they should acknowledge that we as a club have been taken to the IFO and what we will change as a result of it.

Personally I'd like to understand the structure of stewarding / security in relation to the Director of Football Operations. If the report from the IFO is accurate it shows that complaint handing needs to be done by someone with experience and efficiency and separate to the day to day running of the stadium. The operating model needs ammending for the new stadium environment.

Would agree with that.

We are both overall passive people. I have never been violent in my life but on numerous occassions and in the heat of the moment, the opposing fans are the enemy , especially
Palace fans. That's just the way it is. After the 90 minutes is over however I would share a pint with any fan even including a Palace fan if there was some mutual respect.

But it appears from the other thread that that is all just talk as you just go home and get yourself wound up. You ask for mutual respect but you certainly don't show any to away supporters with your generalisations.

Did you read the post by the person who went as witness to the signing of the ABO....? With the greatest of respect, it appears to me from the report, that the club has agreed with the IFO.....ONLY after having been brought, kicking and screaming to the table. If the witness account of the signing of the ABO is remotely correct, then it appears to me.......that this is not a willing agreement by Mr.Hebberd.

We have seen on THIS FORUM, how Mr.Hebberd re-acted when criticised in the past. Spite was his response.

While he remains in the Clubs employ.....I fully expect the same from him, in one guise or another.

His position is untenable.

Kicking and screaming to the table. Perhaps you should read paragraph 2 of the report again. There are of course people that have had run-ins with Mr Hebberd but there are some that have also commented that they have had good dealings with him. If Tony Bloom felt he was doing a poor job I very much suspect he would be out the door.

 

[Lego-Stand]

Drew you seem to be very passionate about this whole affair, are you as close to it personally as I ?

 

[middletoenail]

I don't think Hebberd should be sacked, but it's quite clear that he needs to go on some sort of customer service training, after all this is no the first time this sort of thing has happened with him.

 

[drew]

Drew you seem to be very passionate about this whole affair, are you as close to it personally as I ?

I'm not passionate about the affair just seems that there are plenty of people who are passionate and just want to use this to get rid of Hebberd. Are all these people whiter than white and have never made a mistake in their lives? As Acker said, the important thing is that the club learn from and don't make the same mistakes again. There doesn't seem to be any other similar cases involving the club and even the IFO said this was the most complex case they had dealt with. Your mate is back at games and hopefully can put this behind him and enjoy the run-in.

 

[cjd]

Perhaps you should read paragraph 2 of the report again. .

May I suggest that perhaps you read the other reports too.

They all state..."2. The IFO must make clear at the outset, that he has received full co-operation from....(insert club name) and the football League".

Bog-standard reproduction.

 

[Denver The Last Dinosaur]

I\'m not passionate about the affair just seems that there are plenty of people who are passionate and just want to use this to get rid of Hebberd. Are all these people whiter than white and have never made a mistake in their lives? As Acker said, the important thing is that the club learn from and don\'t make the same mistakes again. There doesn\'t seem to be any other similar cases involving the club and even the IFO said this was the most complex case they had dealt with. Your mate is back at games and hopefully can put this behind him and enjoy the run-in.

Hebberd is the first person to put up his opinion when so called \'un-desirables\' are named and shamed in the paper. We often see him among others saying how these individuals are not really \'fans.\' Now he is the one who has stepped in the shit, I think he should be the one taken to task for it...

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I think the 1901 should be BHAFC exclusive.

Hospitality areas in clubs are never exclusive to the home club. I've paid to go in hospitality in other clubs when unable to get a ticket with the away fans.

 

[drew]

May I suggest that perhaps you read the other reports too.

They all state..."2. The IFO must make clear at the outset, that he has received full co-operation from....(insert club name) and the football League".

Bog-standard reproduction.

But you/ or someone said the club were 'dragged kicking and screaming'. Is that a known fact. Can't see anywhere that suggests the club were not a willing or were an obstructive participant in the process but you want to suggest otherwise with inflamatory adjectives just to support your agenda to oust Hebberd. Stick to the facts

Hebberd is the first person to put up his opinion when so called \'un-desirables\' are named and shamed in the paper. We often see him among others saying how these individuals are not really \'fans.\' Now he is the one who has stepped in the shit, I think he should be the one taken to task for it...

Just to get this in context then, what incidents are you referring to. At the moment, we are only aware of this banning order which has been unfair. Are you suggesting there are many more or are you referring to people who have been arrested for violent/drunken/abusive behaviour. Don't you think most fans would call that behaviour undesirable. Shock horror, hold the front page, football club announce they don't want violent drunken abusive yobs in their ground!!!!

 

[Twizzle]

These days one fan reacting to another one gets far more attention than it would of before.

 

[Miami Seagull]

I can't believe that the club have still not made a statement. Surely the failure to do so can only be read as support for the actions of club officials...

 

[deano seagulls]

Not exactly correct. It was not the route he normally uses just when the aisle next to his seat is busy. Also, you say the steward should have thrown the guy out when he first celebrated. Aren't you being as draconian as much as you are accussing the club of being. The steward had a word and the palace fan was, by some accounts, more subdued. What is telling is the comment by the IFO as follows :-

The IFO concludes that on the balance of probabilities no physical assault occurred, but that the complainant himself instigated the incident by approaching the Palace fan, an action he now bitterly regrets.
So, contrary to your comment, he was guilty of something.

He was guilty of nothing! He walked the way he always walked when the game had finished to go back to his lounge.

 

[deano seagulls]

I'm not passionate about the affair just seems that there are plenty of people who are passionate and just want to use this to get rid of Hebberd. Are all these people whiter than white and have never made a mistake in their lives? As Acker said, the important thing is that the club learn from and don't make the same mistakes again. There doesn't seem to be any other similar cases involving the club and even the IFO said this was the most complex case they had dealt with. Your mate is back at games and hopefully can put this behind him and enjoy the run-in.

Would you consider banning someone and accusing them of assaulting 2 people as nothing!! How would you feel if the same happens to you next weekend?

Mr Hebbard will listen when he wants to and do what he wants to. I have had dealings with him so I know

 

[deano seagulls]

Just been reading through this thread and just want to clarify a couple of points.

I went to a 1901 presentation and at NO point was it said that Away Fans would be in there. The club were selling it to Brighton fans that had endured Withdean and that wanted an extra special treat. I think that it was only when lots of people brought them that it turned from thinking about the fans to thinking about the revenue it was making. 1901 needs to be for home fans or neutrals. That is the only way it will work!

Also some people have mentioned that other people have been banned.

I know of 2 other people. One was arrested bailed appeared in court and was let off with a police caution = 3 match ban and the other was banned for 3 games for foul and abusive language.
This is all too inconsistent. This person has been wrongly accused and had their name slandered and I think its right that people think that someone (hebbard)should have to pay for it. Being accused of assault is not a minor thing and for the club to then admit that the person is guilty of nothing and agreeing this in the signed contract.The stress that this fan has been through in the past 5 months is disgusting and the club need to compensate him and give him a public apology. I often wonder if Tony Bloom know anything about this?

 

[jezzer]

that the palace fan shouldnt be in the home end - agreed

that the ban received by the bton fan was excessive - agreed

the rest of it is coffee house crap!

I know the off duty policeman and he was genuinely fearful for the mans safety on that night and for the bton fan to counter that he was innocent is bollocks.

The kid was frightened for his dad too for christs sake, what is the guy supposed to do, let it escalate until the guys in west stand lower? and peoples interpretation of an official document beggars belief on here, if you think this report says this guy is a poor downtrodden innocent then i`d hate to get any of you in a jury!

 

[wellquickwoody]

I don't get any hassle from stewards or police at any grounds but then I'm not the sort of moron who is winding up opposition supporters trying to instigate trouble or someone who argues with those who are employed to keep us safe. There are rules and regulations fo a reason and if you behave within these then you'll never even notice the stewards or police at football

 

[Chicken Runner61]

It 1901 and you get Away Directors and supporters in there - The Albion won't and probably cant change that.

The Amex is not going to tolerate abuse from either home or away supporters in any part of the ground
I suspect RH wanted to set an example and it backfired slightly as the facts were not entirely right.


Its ridiculous people thinking that home supporters will be treated more leniently than away supporters now - they won't, step out of line in any way and expect to be banned, suspended etc etc

 

[Terry The Law Abider]

that the palace fan shouldnt be in the home end - agreed

that the ban received by the bton fan was excessive - agreed

the rest of it is coffee house crap!

I know the off duty policeman and he was genuinely fearful for the mans safety on that night and for the bton fan to counter that he was innocent is bollocks.

The kid was frightened for his dad too for christs sake, what is the guy supposed to do, let it escalate until the guys in west stand lower? and peoples interpretation of an official document beggars belief on here, if you think this report says this guy is a poor downtrodden innocent then i`d hate to get any of you in a jury!

No one is claiming he's a poor downtrodden innocent, but they are saying he was treated unfairly by the club. As for the kid being frightened for his dad - maybe his dad should have been more responsible and got a ticket in the away section?

 

[Mutts Nuts]

Report now up.

Looks like justice was finally done and he's finally alowed back in.


The Independent Football Ombudsman

Well if that low life copper can lie in a case from an incident which happened while off duty, he can do the same while working he should be dimissed with immediate effect.I hope the Brighton fan who has missed half a season because of a corrupt copper, follows this up with the relevant police department

 

[hola gus]

Jezzer was you there? Well I was. If this blokes kid was so frightened, don't you think it's the responsibilty of him as a father not to be jumping and down celebrating a palace goal in the home end? For me that's a hell of a lot worse than this Brighton fan pointing and telling him to show some respect in the home end. Feelings mutual cos I hope to never see you sit on a jury either.

 

[Pat McCrotch]

who is the 1901 ticket holder that gave his seat to a palace fan on derby night? What a prick