[Politics] ** EU Elections Poll ** - The vote that we never thought we would get!

[vegster]

So lucky we didn’t, everyone seems in agreement on that. Bankrolling the 2008 fiscal collapses in Greece, Ireland, Portugal, Spain etc.

Sweden and Denmark got lucky with that as well.

So, we should have let them just go down the pan then? what would you think if we let those countries collapse and we ended up with hundreds of thousands of economic migrants trying to get to the UK?

 

[Trufflehound]

The way the information is presented is disingenuous and undermines your position further. You can't say all Labour and Tory votes in the EU election were LEAVE, it would be as ridiculous for me to argue all Labour and Tory votes were REMAIN

The fact is we don't know.

I only know a couple of people who voted Tory last week, but 100% of them were Remain. They just voted that way out of some misguided sense of lifelong loyalty (and a distrust of Labour and the Lib Dems).

 

[Weststander]

So, we should have let them just go down the pan then? what would you think if we let those countries collapse and we ended up with hundreds of thousands of economic migrants trying to get to the UK?

It doesn’t work like that.

The countries that joined the Euro and which had gained massively from the sale of their goods and services to Greece as a result, largely Germany and France, met the tab.

This was the painful but accepted ending, the price paid was austerity in Greece etc.

The UK wasn’t asked to add to our own huge national debt, because we weren’t part of the monetary union (which goes beyond just having one mutual currency).

 

[Baker lite]

The way the information is presented is disingenuous and undermines your position further. You can't say all Labour and Tory votes in the EU election were LEAVE, it would be as ridiculous for me to argue all Labour and Tory votes were REMAIN

The fact is we don't know.

The Tory Party and Labour Party at the moment stand on a manifesto to leave, that is a fact, Lib Dem, Green, CHUCK, SNP and PC stand on a manifesto to remain, at present, and I strongly believe Labour will shift stance in the coming weeks, there is a share of the vote that reflects a leave in some form, the Labour Party could turn that on it’s head by shifting to remain, in that process they would be taking a huge gamble, upset their traditional vote in the Northern, working class heartland to appease the Waitrose mafia in London, the coming weeks will define two party politics forever. The Tory Party will more than likely choose a leader will stick to the “no deal is better than a bad deal” script, EU negotiators knew May would not stick to that statement, Ollie Robbins pretty much spelled that out to Barnier.
The Tory’s have an equally big decision to make now, they know the broken promises of May have seriously pissed off their core vote, I don’t think the bulk of the Tory’s want no deal, the core vote sit incredulous that May turned down a free trade agreement last year, May was a remain campaigning MP during 2016, the next leader has to be a Leaver, not only a leaver but prepared to walk away, the EU knew May had no bottle.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[The Clamp]

https://www.businessinsider.com/eur...-regrets-brexit-votes-remain-2019-5?r=US&IR=T

Britain regrets Brexit: European election results show a solid majority for Remain


Democracy demands a second referendum. Common sense demands a total reversal.

 

[Baker lite]

Even the party that tried to kill off the Albion produced literature reflecting manifesto promises.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[nicko31]

I only know a couple of people who voted Tory last week, but 100% of them were Remain. They just voted that way out of some misguided sense of lifelong loyalty (and a distrust of Labour and the Lib Dems).

Not all Tories are leavers, probably around 15-20% are remain and would not vote for Farage

 

[pb21]

Even the party that tried to kill off the Albion produced literature reflecting manifesto promises.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

The 2017 Tory and Labour manifesto promises were to leave with a deal.

Tory


Labour


Good to see you are advocating this and not 'no deal'

 

[Baker lite]

The 2017 Tory and Labour manifesto promises were to leave with a deal.

Tory
View attachment 110327

Labour
View attachment 110328

Good to see you are advocating this and not 'no deal'

Indeed, far better to leave with a good deal, in any business negotiations you have to have an option to walk away, let’s hope a more competent negotiating team from across the political spectrum can start the ball rolling before November, I don’t think a new Tory leader will be asking for any more extensions, The EU knew May would keep asking and asking.

 

[nicko31]

Thanks. Couple of things

Maybe you could explain how, by leaving a free trade deal with the largest trading bloc in the world it will 'increase free trade' ? Surely it would immediately plummet on leaving. You could debate how long it would take to get back to current levels or even increased levels in the long term, but i don't think there is any debate that it will go down in the short and medium term.

Why would a government that hasn't and won't implement the existing controls over Economic Immigration (both inside and outside the EU), suddenly change and start to do so after Brexit ?

Good luck with that one....

 

[pb21]

Indeed, far better to leave with a good deal, in any business negotiations you have to have an option to walk away, let’s hope a more competent negotiating team from across the political spectrum can start the ball rolling before November, I don’t think a new Tory leader will be asking for any more extensions, The EU knew May would keep asking and asking.

That's because the 2017 Tory manifesto explicitly says they will secure the best deal possible and ensure a smooth orderly Brexit.

This necessarily rules out no deal; 'no deal' is not the best possible deal and it is not smooth or orderly.

You therefore cannot countenance 'no deal' unless you want to betray the manifesto on which you were elected and theretofore also betray democracy in the process.

 

[nicko31]

That's because the 2017 Tory manifesto explicitly says they will secure the best deal possible and ensure a smooth orderly Brexit.

This necessarily rules out no deal; 'no deal' is not the best possible deal and it is not smooth or orderly.

You therefore cannot countenance 'no deal' unless you want to betray the manifesto on which you were elected and theretofore also betray democracy in the process.

If no deal is the way to go, the public MUST be consulted before we proceed.

Unless the Tories want to vote through May's deal which they are choosing to block. Do they want Brexit or not?

 

[pb21]

If no deal is the way to go, the public MUST be consulted before we proceed.

Unless the Tories want to vote through May's deal which they are choosing to block. Do they want Brexit or not?

I agree.

The 2016 referendum was not a vote for no deal.
The 2017 GE Tory/Labour/Lib Dem/Green/SNP etc. manifesto's were not for no deal.
Parties in the 2019 Euro elections that got most votes were not for no deal.

At no point has no deal ever had the will of the people behind it, in fact the most recent result is that the will of the people is not for no deal.

 

[shingle]

https://www.businessinsider.com/eur...-regrets-brexit-votes-remain-2019-5?r=US&IR=T

Britain regrets Brexit: European election results show a solid majority for Remain


Democracy demands a second referendum. Common sense demands a total reversal.

No they don't. What planet are you living on

 

[Mellotron]

No Deal is in a massive minority, and wouldn't get through Parliament. Yet Brexiteers vote down all other ways of leaving.

Looking like Second Referendum is now inevitable, impossible to see another way through.

 

[Mellotron]

No they don't. What planet are you living on

Eh? The Brexit vote has plummeted massively since 2016.

2016 - 17.4m votes and 52% share.
2019 - 5m votes and 32% share.

The People have spoken, and they very clearly do not want Brexit anymore.

"You lost." "Get over it." Stop trying to ignore democracy and the Will of the People, just because it doesn't suit your views.

 

[dingodan]

No Deal is in a massive minority, and wouldn't get through Parliament. Yet Brexiteers vote down all other ways of leaving.

Looking like Second Referendum is now inevitable, impossible to see another way through.

Massive minority?

Hardly. It was the most popular choice when put up against remaining.

 

[seagullwedgee]

And if the recent EU vote splits were reflected 8n a second referendum it infers it will be a 52/48 result in favour of remain. Admittedly the EU vote turnout was only about 35%, and you would expect the second referendum turnout to be much higher, it is still statistically significant. This assumes the second referendum offers two choices, remain, or exit with no deal. Because I cannot see any deal being passed by MPs now. The EU will not budge on its position, because it really wants remain, and you will never get the splits and warring factions of the 600 main party MPs to agree on a deal. So, I’m desperately hoping for remain.

 

[Mellotron]

Massive minority?

Hardly. It was the most popular choice when put up against remaining.

That's on completely skewed parameters as you well know - you can't use a binary question as a prover of overall popularity.

That's like asking the following "Would you rather get punched in the face or kicked in the nuts?" and saying that whichever got more votes is "really popular". Totally disingenuous.

Also massively out of date - we literally had a vote on it a couple of days ago mate;

It got 32% of 37% of the country. People don't want No Deal Brexit. Less than 10% of the country voted for it.

 

[dingodan]

Eh? The Brexit vote has plummeted massively since 2016.

2016 - 17.4m votes and 52% share.
2019 - 5m votes and 32% share.

The People have spoken, and they very clearly do not want Brexit anymore.

"You lost." "Get over it." Stop trying to ignore democracy and the Will of the People, just because it doesn't suit your views.