England vs Bangladesh

[Pavilionaire]

I like the sound of that. I'd be inclined to have a separate coach for the limited overs teams. I don't see why we should have one head coach for all the formats.

Fly out a different team for the ODIs if needs be.

I think English cricket is at such a low ebb the case for Pietersen's return is strong. If it is restricted to the one day side then he doesn't have to come up against Cook or bin his IPL contract to play 4 day county cricket.

 

[maltaseagull]

I think English cricket is at such a low ebb the case for Pietersen's return is strong. If it is restricted to the one day side then he doesn't have to come up against Cook or bin his IPL contract to play 4 day county cricket.

As a player?

We need to get at least 5 new players in.
The bowlers were really poor , the batting worse.
KP maybe as coach, but he will not solve the problems as a player.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

We did different teams and captains for tests and ODIs in the 1990s and early 2000s (Adam Hollioake was the ODI captain I think), and at one stage packed the ODI side with crap all-rounders who could neither bat nor bowl (Mark Ealham ffs). We were still terrible.

 

[Gwylan]

The England timetable was rearranged to give the World Cup priority, which is why fewer tests have been played.

Yes, but I think Selvey's point goes deeper than that: he's suggesting that the selectors shouldn't fundamentally rethink how squads are selected. For example, David Warner played for Australia's one day side before he'd even played one first class game - that would be absolutely unheard of over here. It's not just tinkering with the fixture list that we need, it's new thinking.

Selvey has always backed Downton and the ECB over KP's sacking, but still, apart from Downton's comment about KP looking disinterested and whistling irreverently, we've heard nothing

But I don't think that wanting KP out of the side is a sign of an establishment. There are plenty of valid reasons why he shouldn't be playing. I agree it's strange that we're hearing nothing more but I really think that Pietersen is an irrelevance - he's probably only got another year left in him and we should be identifying players for the future. KP wouldn't have replaced Bell or Morgan (and he's not a number 3, so he'd not have been chosen instead of Ballance either).

This is an excellent piece from George Dobell - one of my favourite cricket writers right now
http://www.espncricinfo.com/icc-cricket-world-cup-2015/content/story/846813.html

He's right: this goes far deeper than a few individuals, this is the fifth successive World Cup we've been shocking - that's not down to Moores, Morgan or Downton

 

[Mackenzie]

This terrible tournament performance should signal the beginning of a new approach from England. Got to take the positives.

We move on.

 

[El Presidente]

Yes, but I think Selvey's point goes deeper than that: he's suggesting that the selectors shouldn't fundamentally rethink how squads are selected. For example, David Warner played for Australia's one day side before he'd even played one first class game - that would be absolutely unheard of over here. It's not just tinkering with the fixture list that we need, it's new thinking.



But I don't think that wanting KP out of the side is a sign of an establishment. There are plenty of valid reasons why he shouldn't be playing. I agree it's strange that we're hearing nothing more but I really think that Pietersen is an irrelevance - he's probably only got another year left in him and we should be identifying players for the future. KP wouldn't have replaced Bell or Morgan (and he's not a number 3, so he'd not have been chosen instead of Ballance either).

This is an excellent piece from George Dobell - one of my favourite cricket writers right now
http://www.espncricinfo.com/icc-cricket-world-cup-2015/content/story/846813.html

He's right: this goes far deeper than a few individuals, this is the fifth successive World Cup we've been shocking - that's not down to Moores, Morgan or Downton

You mention Warner, and he's a Grade A ****, as is Maxwell, but the selectors pick them on cricketing merit, and ignore the ego issues, which to be fair have been well managed by Lehman.

The likes of Root, Broad and Anderson are majorly in love with themselves too, it's not just KP. As for building for the future, surely England have been building for this tournament and he's 34, compared to Dilshan 38, Jayawardene 37, Sangakkarra 37 and Herath 36 for Sri Lanka,

We've not been shocking in the last five tournaments, just a bit mediocre, and there were genuine reasons (refusing to play Zimbabwe, Ashes tours etc) which were an element of mitigation.

In this competition we've been thrashed, not beaten, by three teams, and then folded against Bangladesh, not on a slow and low turner on the subcontinent, but on a hard and fast Aussie wicket.

 

[Bold Seagull]

You mention Warner, and he's a Grade A ****, as is Maxwell, but the selectors pick them on cricketing merit, and ignore the ego issues, which to be fair have been well managed by Lehman.

When you think of the low point Australian cricket was at when Lehman stepped in, I'd go as far to say that what Lehman has done has been nothing short of miraculous. It was a toxic dressing room when he stepped in, certain players weren't even talking to each other, however he seemed to be empowered enough not to take any shit from anyone and put players in their places. He's fully involved in selection, and appears to have complete control of the playing side. An amazing transformation for them in a very short period of time.4

I think England have players with far too much power in the dressing room, too much to say for themselves. A lot of what KP has said sounds about right.

 

[Javeaseagull]

I have read KPs book because it was given to me. Anyone else who has read it will realize why there is no way back for him. He burnt the bridges behind him and everything since then has been all about him keeping his name out there. His ego is quite something to behold and the blame game knows no bounds. It's everyone else's fault never his. I was married to someone similar.

 

[The Merry Prankster]

I have read KPs book because it was given to me. Anyone else who has read it will realize why there is no way back for him. He burnt the bridges behind him and everything since then has been all about him keeping his name out there. His ego is quite something to behold and the blame game knows no bounds. It's everyone else's fault never his. I was married to someone similar.

She's not a left arm seamer by any chance.

 

[Gwylan]

You mention Warner, and he's a Grade A ****, as is Maxwell, but the selectors pick them on cricketing merit, and ignore the ego issues, which to be fair have been well managed by Lehman.

They may have egos but I can't imagine Warner texting an opposing captain to slag off Pup.

As for building for the future, surely England have been building for this tournament and he's 34, compared to Dilshan 38, Jayawardene 37, Sangakkarra 37 and Herath 36 for Sri Lanka,

There's a big difference: those guys have done the business for SL, the likes of Morgan, Broad and Anderson have been shocking for England. I agree that SL can expect a period of decline shortly

We've not been shocking in the last five tournaments, just a bit mediocre, and there were genuine reasons (refusing to play Zimbabwe, Ashes tours etc) which were an element of mitigation.

To quote Dobell's piece: "They have a grim World Cup record going back to their defeat in the final of 1992, having won only five matches in six tournaments against teams from the top eight of the Test rankings." - that's more than mediocre. I still remember 1999, I bought tickets in advance for the knockout stages, thinking I'd watch England and ended up following Zimbabwe round the country!

 

[Javeaseagull]

They may have egos but I can't imagine Warner texting an opposing captain to slag off Pup.



There's a big difference: those guys have done the business for SL, the likes of Morgan, Broad and Anderson have been shocking for England. I agree that SL can expect a period of decline shortly



To quote Dobell's piece: "They have a grim World Cup record going back to their defeat in the final of 1992, having won only five matches in six tournaments against teams from the top eight of the Test rankings." - that's more than mediocre. I still remember 1999, I bought tickets in advance for the knockout stages, thinking I'd watch England and ended up following Zimbabwe round the country!

To be fair, Zimbabwe had a decent team at that time.

 

[Javeaseagull]

She's not a left arm seamer by any chance.

I'd never have left if she was.

 

[El Presidente]

They may have egos but I can't imagine Warner texting an opposing captain to slag off Pup.



There's a big difference: those guys have done the business for SL, the likes of Morgan, Broad and Anderson have been shocking for England. I agree that SL can expect a period of decline shortly



To quote Dobell's piece: "They have a grim World Cup record going back to their defeat in the final of 1992, having won only five matches in six tournaments against teams from the top eight of the Test rankings." - that's more than mediocre. I still remember 1999, I bought tickets in advance for the knockout stages, thinking I'd watch England and ended up following Zimbabwe round the country!

KP is a pain, but he too has done the business for England. As for England's previous records in the competition, nothing compares to losing to New ****ing Zealand in 12 overs, by 9 wickets defending over 300 to SL, and today's embarrassment.

 

[Gwylan]

As for England's previous records in the competition, nothing compares to losing to New ****ing Zealand in 12 overs, by 9 wickets defending over 300 to SL, and today's embarrassment.

Well, they've lost a few times to Bangladesh now but the NZ result was an utter disgrace.

 

[Javeaseagull]

KP is a pain, but he too has done the business for England. As for England's previous records in the competition, nothing compares to losing to New ****ing Zealand in 12 overs, by 9 wickets defending over 300 to SL, and today's embarrassment.

KP hasn't had a decent innings for years. He is making a very good living on the 20/20 circuit without pulling up any trees and cashing in on his reputation. Fair play to him but he is not the answer to Englands woes. We have far more problems than one player missing.

 

[Gwylan]

I'd suggest one of the bigger problems is the private school background of many of the players. I'm aware that private schools can produce some unorthodox talents (KP for one, Jos Buttler another) but, on the whole, they're exceptionally well-coached, solid players rather than flamboyant stroke makers. Look at the recent England contingent: Strauss, Cook, Bell, Prior, Taylor etc - they're not the players to knock up a 70-ball century.


But, it's also restricting the selection pool: half of county cricketers come from just 7% of schools, there are probably a few decent players in the 93% who don't get a chance. I can't see the Aussies picking their team from such a narrow field

 

[El Presidente]

Well, they've lost a few times to Bangladesh now but the NZ result was an utter disgrace.

They've lost to Bangladesh on slow, low turners in Dhaka, not Adelaide

 

[mona]

I'd suggest one of the bigger problems is the private school background of many of the players. I'm aware that private schools can produce some unorthodox talents (KP for one, Jos Buttler another) but, on the whole, they're exceptionally well-coached, solid players rather than flamboyant stroke makers. Look at the recent England contingent: Strauss, Cook, Bell, Prior, Taylor etc - they're not the players to knock up a 70-ball century.


But, it's also restricting the selection pool: half of county cricketers come from just 7% of schools, there are probably a few decent players in the 93% who don't get a chance. I can't see the Aussies picking their team from such a narrow field

Trouble is that it's a bit of a dodgy statistic often used by the anti-state school lobby. Thing is that if you are a useful 13 year old cricketer, an independent school will offer you a free education so that you can improve their cricket team. This of course is never mentioned when Conservative politicians use it as something else to indicate the superiority of the private sector.

Bell did not go to an independent school anyway. He went to a Coventry comprehensive.

Oddly, most county sides are dominated by ex-public school pupils - usually benefiting from said scholarships - except for the players from Lancashire, Durham and Yorkshire who are mainly state school.

I partly agree with you as state school cricketers are probably more likely to make the required leaps forward later on.

 

[Gwylan]

Bell did not go to an independent school anyway. He went to a Coventry comprehensive.

Princethorpe College is a Catholic, co-educational, HMC independent day school

Oddly, most county sides are dominated by ex-public school pupils - usually benefiting from said scholarships - except for the players from Lancashire, Durham and Yorkshire who are mainly state school. [/QUOTE]

Yes, that's the point I was making: the test side is dominated by ex-public school pupils because county sides are.

I don't see it as a dodgy statistic - it's something that's pretty factual - there was research only two years ago to back this up
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/e...eters-come-from-uk-state-schools-8695905.html

I was looking at the make-up of the 1979 England side (which got to the final of the WC). Three out of that 11 were privately educated: I doubt if any England team will get that low again.

 

[Pevenseagull]

Having purchased my tickets for Lords tests against Oz and NZ wondered if I should see if Lords will take them back and give me a refund

Hope you've not got tickets for the fourth day.