England Cricket Captain...

[ih8palarse]

simon jones.. i think not

 

[Pavilionaire]

The point is there is no other English-born batsmen who is forcing themselves into the side by dint of the sheer weight of runs they are scoring.

This situation could all be put right by Vaughan having one decent knock, similar to his recent Lords innings, and the rest of the team showing the sort of grit with their batting Stuart Broad has managed to show.

I see Collingwood got a poor score again.

The selectors made a right balls up with Pattinson and they've made another dropping Broad. Today confirmed we won't win this series.

 

[Papa Lazarou]

I thought i'd enter the fray again to remind you that I tipped Rob Key for England Cricket captain...

Lots of support of the BBC TMS site today..

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/tms/2008/07/frail_batting_costs_england_ag.shtml

We'll see...

 

[Zesh Rehman]

Meant to vote for Vaughan

 

[Papa Lazarou]

The point is there is no other English-born batsmen who is forcing themselves into the side by dint of the sheer weight of runs they are scoring.

Oddly enough the only player who's been in fine fettle this summer in the championship has been Matt Prior.

If they selectors do go for a clear out, I'd say Broad, Shah, Bopara and Prior would return to the squad. Simon Jones and Harmy may also be in with a shout.

Rob Key would be an 'interesting' choice. I know I've mentioned him as the captain, but even I would have to admit it would be a big leap to go from county captain to England No.3 (or opener) and Captain.

So the line up could look like:

Strauss
Cook
Shah
Pieterson
Bell / Bopara
Prior
Flintoff
Broad
Jones (s)
Sidebottom
Anderson / Harmy
Panesar

That gives us Pace (Harmy & Jones), swing Sidebottom and Flintoff, and Spin (Shah, KP and Panesar) plus Bopara has been taking more wickets that Colly this season.

Our batsmen will all be in form and we then bat down to 9 (jones is a decent slogger).

I like it.

If Key was brought in I'd slot him in instead of Shah...

 

[sten_super]

So the line up could look like:

Strauss
Cook
Shah
Pieterson
Bell / Bopara
Prior
Flintoff
Broad
Jones (s)
Sidebottom
Anderson / Harmy
Panesar

We might stand a chance if they'd let us play 12 players! I think from that team I would drop Anderson/Harmison. I also think it's a bit harsh to give Bell a borderline place in the team, he's impressed me in this series, and seems to be adding some mettle to his game. Would you have Strauss as captain?

 

[Trigger]

Quite surprised to see Strauss in the lead!

 

[Papa Lazarou]

We might stand a chance if they'd let us play 12 players! I think from that team I would drop Anderson/Harmison. I also think it's a bit harsh to give Bell a borderline place in the team, he's impressed me in this series, and seems to be adding some mettle to his game. Would you have Strauss as captain?

Clearly that was my 12 to select 11 from!!!

Strauss is the only 1 in the team that might be able to do the captain role and play, although it wasn't that long ago that he was dropped for being woefully out of form as well.

Bell's an odd one - he looks a million dollars much of the time, but fails to deliver when the pressure is on... he was under as much pressure as Collingwood until his massive innings in the 1st test... but of course he's doing well now.

Cook has avoided much of the flack, even though his performance has been patchy as well.

 

[Withdean Wanderer]

I think Key is definitely deserving of another shot in the team, his form has been great for Kent, however fat he is.

As for Captain, well, Bell or Pietersen would do me. Potentially Strauss could do it as well, but he can be a bit too erratic at times.

 

[sten_super]

Clearly that was my 12 to select 11 from!!!

Sorry, I didn't know that, just assumed you'd got your sums wrong. It's the kind of thing I do all the time, when working out how to solve Englands problems!

Strauss is the only 1 in the team that might be able to do the captain role and play, although it wasn't that long ago that he was dropped for being woefully out of form as well.

Bell's an odd one - he looks a million dollars much of the time, but fails to deliver when the pressure is on... he was under as much pressure as Collingwood until his massive innings in the 1st test... but of course he's doing well now.

Cook has avoided much of the flack, even though his performance has been patchy as well.

I agree from those available he looks to be the only one. I would like to think that he's not guaranteed a spot in the team, given that he was only recently dropped. If however we're talking about Vaughan leaving then it doesn't really leave any other established openers to replace Strauss, so he's probably safe.

With Bell... yesterday to a degree he pulled something out of the bag when things weren't going his way. Certainly in the past his problem has always been scoring runs when the chips are down; I'm hoping that this serious will mark something of a watershed in his career and now he'll start scoring buckets of runs in all conditions.

I think you are being a bit harsh on Cook to be honest... he had a couple of poor series against NZ, but he generally looks pretty solid, and is one for the long-term. A test average of 43 shows he is no slouch.

 

[Papa Lazarou]

Sorry, I didn't know that, just assumed you'd got your sums wrong. It's the kind of thing I do all the time, when working out how to solve Englands problems!



I agree from those available he looks to be the only one. I would like to think that he's not guaranteed a spot in the team, given that he was only recently dropped. If however we're talking about Vaughan leaving then it doesn't really leave any other established openers to replace Strauss, so he's probably safe.

With Bell... yesterday to a degree he pulled something out of the bag when things weren't going his way. Certainly in the past his problem has always been scoring runs when the chips are down; I'm hoping that this serious will mark something of a watershed in his career and now he'll start scoring buckets of runs in all conditions.

I think you are being a bit harsh on Cook to be honest... he had a couple of poor series against NZ, but he generally looks pretty solid, and is one for the long-term. A test average of 43 shows he is no slouch.

With regard to the 12 - yes it was my mistake.

The general problem that always seems to creep into England selection policy is that they seem to persevere with players long after they are no longer performing. Now, you could say that is a good thing, as to change the team every time someone has a poor run would be ridiculous, but when they dropped Collingwood and Strauss, both got back into the team without having done anything to justify it. So, it seems like if you're a 'mate' of Vaughan, you're safe.

Another thing which backs up this 'idea' is the disparate treatment of the bowlers over the batsmen. You havw 1 bad game as a bowler and you're out (Hoggard, Broad, Pattinson) but as a batsman it takes a lot longer and then you pop back in anyway!!

Back to your point, Cook is definitely one for the future and worth his place, but I'm not sure about Bell - he just seems too 'fragile', despite his recent scores.

 

[Skint Gull]

but when they dropped Collingwood and Strauss, both got back into the team without having done anything to justify it.

To be fair to Strauss he did change quite a lot when he went back to CC, the Collingwood selection however is laughable! If he's in the team for his batting then at present Broad should be batting 6 and bowling the odd over rather than sat twiddling his thumbs!

 

[Paddy B]

simon jones.. i think not

Why not? He is almost back to his devasting best. 90mph plus and swings it both ways.

I think the general state of the England team is a worry, we struggled against one of the worst Kiwi sides in recent history and have been found out against SA.

Unfortunately there is no stand out candidate for captain but if pushed I would go for Cook.

 

[Pavilionaire]

A lot of the players touted for reselection here - Shah, Prior, Bopara - have all had their chances and failed to take them.

The county averages routinely show overseas batmen occupying 3/4 of the top 15 places, often guys like Langer and Lawwho's test careers are already over. If Bopara and Shah ARE good enough they should habitually be in the top 8 averages and routinely scoring big hundreds, but they're not.

The likes of Ramprakash and Hick did this for years yet neither averaged anything like the 40+ test marks of Bell, Cook and Vaughan.

The 1st XI we should be working towards is:

Cook
Strauss
Bell
Pietersen
Vaughan
Flintoff
Read
Broad
S. Jones
Sidebottom
Panesar

I fancy Broad might be a little more comfortable having teammate Read behind the stumps. Read himself will also have teammate Sidebottom and former teammate Pietersen and I just feel he'll do OK if recalled.

 

[sten_super]

A lot of the players touted for reselection here - Shah, Prior, Bopara - have all had their chances and failed to take them.

The county averages routinely show overseas batmen occupying 3/4 of the top 15 places, often guys like Langer and Lawwho's test careers are already over. If Bopara and Shah ARE good enough they should habitually be in the top 8 averages and routinely scoring big hundreds, but they're not.

The likes of Ramprakash and Hick did this for years yet neither averaged anything like the 40+ test marks of Bell, Cook and Vaughan.

I have to take issue with your opening gambit. Bopara is the only one that can have been seen to failed to take his chance; but he played 3 tests, all in Sri Lanka. He was discarded after that, having made a pair in the last test. Shah has only played 2 test matches, and averages 34. I don't see how that can be construed as a failure. And Prior averages over 40 in test cricket! But because he struggled a bit with keeping in Sri Lanka (as, I would imagine, most English keepers, certainly batsmen-keepers, would), he was dropped quicker than a hot potato.

I don't quite understand your point about the domestic averages... you say that these players should be topping the averages if they want selection, then say that English players that have done so haven't been good enough anyway. So even if they top the averages they shouldn't be selected? It's also worth noting that a lot of the current crop of English players aren't necessarily players that went out and consistently scored masses and masses of runs in county cricket; it appears much more to be about technique and temperament. For example Vaughan's first class average is lower than any of Shah, Bopara or Prior's.

 

[Skint Gull]

A lot of the players touted for reselection here - Shah, Prior, Bopara - have all had their chances and failed to take them.

The county averages routinely show overseas batmen occupying 3/4 of the top 15 places, often guys like Langer and Lawwho's test careers are already over. If Bopara and Shah ARE good enough they should habitually be in the top 8 averages and routinely scoring big hundreds, but they're not.

The likes of Ramprakash and Hick did this for years yet neither averaged anything like the 40+ test marks of Bell, Cook and Vaughan.

The 1st XI we should be working towards is:

Cook
Strauss
Bell
Pietersen
Vaughan
Flintoff
Read
Broad
S. Jones
Sidebottom
Panesar

I fancy Broad might be a little more comfortable having teammate Read behind the stumps. Read himself will also have teammate Sidebottom and former teammate Pietersen and I just feel he'll do OK if recalled.

Who would you have opening with Sidebottom then? I don't recall Flintoff, Broad or Jones opening the bowling for England in ANY form of cricket?

 

[Papa Lazarou]

Who would you have opening with Sidebottom then? I don't recall Flintoff, Broad or Jones opening the bowling for England in ANY form of cricket?

That team does seem short of a bowler, and with Vaughan, Flintoff and Read in quick succession I could see that team collapsing from 120-2 to 180 all out quite easliy; the batting isn't very robust.

 

[sten_super]

Who would you have opening with Sidebottom then? I don't recall Flintoff, Broad or Jones opening the bowling for England in ANY form of cricket?

I think Flintoff may have opened on occasion in ODIs, but I'm probably wrong. Other than that though, you are right. Jones bowls first change for Worcs and Broad lower still I think for Notts. You'd have to either ask Freddie to do it for 5 overs, or hope Broad develops as a new-ball bowler.

 

[Pettitt303]

vaughan is still class!

 

[SICKASAGULL]

Whilst agreeing that Vaughan must make a decent score in the near future,the doubtful decision in the present game must not be the deciding factor