Employment law help... Untrue bad reference

[Emily's Mum]

She can use a Subject Access request under the Data Protection Act to request a copy of her records


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[Emily's Mum]

Precisely - this is why union membership is so important for teachers - legal support and advice + more provided

And for all public sector workers. They are so desperate to get the wage bill down that they will try anything


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[Spiros]

Don't assume for one minute that a public sector institution, especially a county council, will have a proper grasp of what is right and fair. A lot of 'senior' people not in HR have no idea of what they should do in these situations and the result is often the victim, ie your partner, ending up winning a case. After a lot of stress. I speak as one who has seen what a combination of the Fire Brigade and west sussex council have done to my brother and what his lawyers are doing to the public purse as a consequence.

 

[NooBHA]

Sorry to duplicate if already resolved

Former Employers cannot give negative references. The reason being many reasons but the driving force behind it was the European Courts and UK government also was happy to implement it because it doesn't want people claiming Benefits because they can't get jobs due to bad references.

However, and here is potentially the reason a problem has arisen. To get round this, potential employers now all ask the following question when seeking a reference from former employers. ''Would you re-employ this person''

If they say ''No'' to that question then the new prospective employer may deem that to be a negative reference. It is not however deemed a ''Negative Reference in Law''

 

[SK1NT]

This does seem rather an odd situation. If she had been doing the job satisfactorily for three months (and more), then a reference from an employer five years ago should really not matter that greatly to the current employer. They should be able to judge the employee's character, ability, and so on from what they know - not what they have since received from an embittered previous colleague.

It strikes me that this reference received must have been truly awful to have prompted such an action (or the HR team are all jobsworths). Has she actually got a copy of the reference, as I'm sure in this day and age she can demand to see it (when I started my current job I found half of my reference from my previous employer on the photocopier, and asked for the rest - even then HR were a bit reluctant, but did give me the full copy). And as others have said, if it differs from all the other previous references from the previous school - then surely the new school must take this into account? A poster mentioned before that the only reason they could think of was that the school consider she told them a 'big lie'. I agree - but if she can come up with the goods to show that she didn't, then there would no longer be any justification for dismissing her.

In local authority life (unlike in some sectors) you shouldn't be able to just dismiss someone (or even take their offer away) without sitting down and having a proper discussion and explanation. And that should include the ability for her to argue her case.

Good luck.

And yes - try the union anyway. 17 years ago I was sacked for 'gross misconduct' (basically a stitch up to protect the bosses who had cocked up - they selected the only two temporary staff, who weren't in the union to 'pay for it'). Anyway, I wasn't in the union - but as I wanted to fight it, and they hated the head of HR and had been waiting for someone to take him on, they let me join and backdated my membership!. We won, and the head of HR left very shortly afterwards with no notice or warning.

They loved her in this current job. They even created the role for her after having our baby. Their HR does seem to be very strict that they need 2 positive references.

Thanks again for all the help. I haven't been able to get on here over the last few days.

So the current situation... She spoke to an employment law lawyer and he said it wasn’t worth taking the bad reference school to court for an incorrect bad reference as she has already got some contract days lined up for work which means she can’t claim loss of earnings.

My partner did get a copy of all the four references from the school in the past (which weren’t negative) and she called the headmaster of the school that dismissed her and asked if she could provide one of these references instead however they stated that they can only use the first 2 references received. So she has definitely lost the job she loved.

I doubt we will take this further as negative part of the CV was based on the question ‘Would you employ her them again?’ which sounds like this can’t be classed as negative. Even though it was a personal opinion rather than a statement of fact. Surely a negative CV can only be valid if that employee had received warnings (which wasn’t the case here)

We shall just do what [MENTION=205]Tom Hark, Preston Park[/MENTION] said and not use this school for references in the future and use contracted jobs. It’s a shame that the bullies have got away upsetting my gf again 5 years later.

 

[Goldstone1976]

They loved her in this current job. They even created the role for her after having our baby. Their HR does seem to be very strict that they need 2 positive references.

Thanks again for all the help. I haven't been able to get on here over the last few days.

So the current situation... She spoke to an employment law lawyer and he said it wasn’t worth taking the bad reference school to court for an incorrect bad reference as she has already got some contract days lined up for work which means she can’t claim loss of earnings.

My partner did get a copy of all the four references from the school in the past (which weren’t negative) and she called the headmaster of the school that dismissed her and asked if she could provide one of these references instead however they stated that they can only use the first 2 references received. So she has definitely lost the job she loved.

I doubt we will take this further as negative part of the CV was based on the question ‘Would you employ her them again?’ which sounds like this can’t be classed as negative. Even though it was a personal opinion rather than a statement of fact. Surely a negative CV can only be valid if that employee had received warnings (which wasn’t the case here)

We shall just do what [MENTION=205]Tom Hark, Preston Park[/MENTION] said and not use this school for references in the future and use contracted jobs. It’s a shame that the bullies have got away upsetting my gf again 5 years later.

Firstly, this is a real shame - she, and you, have my sympathies.

On the the bit I've emboldened: from an employment law perspective, my opinion is that the advice you've received is correct. However, a libel lawyer may have a different opinion - depending on what was actually said. If you can prove that the opinion proffered was inaccurate and defamatory (the latter should be easy because whatever was said was enough to cause a third party to change their mind about offering her a job that they had created for her), she might be able to claim damages, irrespective of her contract work having provided mitigating income from an employment law perspective.

However, libel litigation is expensive and very difficult to predict how it will go. It's almost certainly best to write the whole thing off to experience and, as you say, never approach that school for a reference again.