[Misc] Electric Cars

[chickens]

Euro NACP are trying encourage car manufacturers to go back to switches, screen controls are at least as dangerous as mobile phones if not worse with drivers needing to take their eyes off the road for up to 40 seconds. Guess some will try out voice controls, could be a disaster with kids and jokers.

 

[Greg Bobkin]

I'm really hoping the trend of EVs relying on touchscreens for all the controls is coming to an end. A touchscreen is fine for in-car entertainment but trying to press on a screen to adjust things is a real pain when you're driving.

I have noticed in a lot of recent new EV reviews they are starting to move back to having physical buttons and dials for things like climate control. Hopefully they've finally realised touchscreens suck in cars.

Someone – or, actually – more people – need to tell Volvo, because the EX30 is HORRENDOUS. One screen and you operate almost EVERYTHING through it. No driver display or head-up display, so if you want any sort of information or to do anything, you have to take your eyes right off the road. It's just dangerous. The menu system is a bit of a joke, too. Rumour is that, in the EX90, the wing mirrors will reposition themselves according to your seating position, all based on the in-car camera tech. Sounds like a disaster waiting to happen...

Thankfully Volkswagen, which got pelters for the HMI in the ID.3, is getting back to a few more physical buttons and switches. Most other manufacturers are following suit.

 

[chip]

This is why i like my Mazda, simple controls and buttons and the touch screen turns off when you are moving.

 

[Audax]

Sure, but if people are not doing many miles and have access to either work or home charging – or just need to charge, say once a week – it's a good option, no?

Absolutely, hence it being "a welcome addition". Heck, if it wasn't for the 130+ miles round trip I do when I commute to work it'd be perfect for us (school runs, groceries, occasional slightly longer trips into Brighton or Eastbourne or Seaford).

Most other manufacturers are following suit.

Be interesting to see what Renault are doing with the 5. The Zoe (even on my top-of-the-range version) retained a lot of physical switches. Air con is switches / knobs / dials, Eco mode on/off is a switch, cruise control is from buttons on the steering wheel, and there's a neat little stick behind the steering wheel (below the standard wipers stick) with controls for the sound system.

 

[Badger]

Absolutely, hence it being "a welcome addition". Heck, if it wasn't for the 130+ miles round trip I do when I commute to work it'd be perfect for us (school runs, groceries, occasional slightly longer trips into Brighton or Eastbourne or Seaford).



Be interesting to see what Renault are doing with the 5. The Zoe (even on my top-of-the-range version) retained a lot of physical switches. Air con is switches / knobs / dials, Eco mode on/off is a switch, cruise control is from buttons on the steering wheel, and there's a neat little stick behind the steering wheel (belong the standard wipers stick) with controls for the sound system.

I watched a review of the Renault 5 a couple of weeks ago and it did seem like they were sticking with the physical switches. It actually looks like a great little car.

It's just a shame none of these small cars are coming to North America. We seem to be rapidly moving towards "SUV or nothing" which is quite depressing.

 

[nicko31]

A welcome addition, although looks like the price point is being achieved by skimping big time on the battery / range.

137 miles, not great, but the price....

 

[Half Time Pies]

Someone – or, actually – more people – need to tell Volvo, because the EX30 is HORRENDOUS. One screen and you operate almost EVERYTHING through it. No driver display or head-up display, so if you want any sort of information or to do anything, you have to take your eyes right off the road. It's just dangerous. The menu system is a bit of a joke, too. Rumour is that, in the EX90, the wing mirrors will reposition themselves according to your seating position, all based on the in-car camera tech. Sounds like a disaster waiting to happen...

Thankfully Volkswagen, which got pelters for the HMI in the ID.3, is getting back to a few more physical buttons and switches. Most other manufacturers are following suit.

Theres absolutely no issues with having most of the controls through a central screen, Tesla have been doing this for years and I have owned 3 of them without any issues and theres certainly nothing dangerous about it. The HMI in the ID 3 got slated primarily because it was laggy and had lots of bugs and software issues, nothing to do with a lack of physical buttons and switches. Contrast this with the touchscreen in the Tesla which is intuitive and responsive and is constantly being improved and updated via over the air software updates. I did have a quick look at the EX30 the other day and the touchscreen looked pretty good to me and presumably similar to the one in the polestar which is owned by the same company.

 

[Greg Bobkin]

Theres absolutely no issues with having most of the controls through a central screen, Tesla have been doing this for years and I have owned 3 of them without any issues and theres certainly nothing dangerous about it. The HMI in the ID 3 got slated primarily because it was laggy and had lots of bugs and software issues, nothing to do with a lack of physical buttons and switches. Contrast this with the touchscreen in the Tesla which is intuitive and responsive and is constantly being improved and updated via over the air software updates. I did have a quick look at the EX30 the other day and the touchscreen looked pretty good to me and presumably similar to the one in the polestar which is owned by the same company.

Sorry, but I can tell you there absolutely ARE issues with having a single screen on the EX30 where everything is fed through it: it's dangerous because you're constantly taking your eyes off the road! People will make allowances for it because dynamically it's a good car - it really is - but it shouldn't HAVE to be like that. Volvo - or, more likely the Chinese patent company - has overcomplicated things but, as you say Tesla drivers seem to like it, so I guess it figured "If you can't beat them..."

It won't be the same setup in the new Polestars. Having seen and heard what people had said about EX30, the UK Polestar guys were straight into HQ to make sure they weren't going to get the same bad press!

 

[dsr-burnley]

Theres absolutely no issues with having most of the controls through a central screen, Tesla have been doing this for years and I have owned 3 of them without any issues and theres certainly nothing dangerous about it. The HMI in the ID 3 got slated primarily because it was laggy and had lots of bugs and software issues, nothing to do with a lack of physical buttons and switches. Contrast this with the touchscreen in the Tesla which is intuitive and responsive and is constantly being improved and updated via over the air software updates. I did have a quick look at the EX30 the other day and the touchscreen looked pretty good to me and presumably similar to the one in the polestar which is owned by the same company.

I've never tried using a touchscreen while driving, but are you genuinely saying that you can use it without looking at the screen? Or are you saying that looking at the road provides no safety advantage over looking at a screen? Either seems unlikely.

I certainly can't use my tablet touchscreen without looking at it. Maybe Teslas are different? Voice info or something? (I can adjust the heating in my much cheaper petrol Corsa without taking my eyes off the road.)

 

[Half Time Pies]

Sorry, but I can tell you there absolutely ARE issues with having a single screen on the EX30 where everything is fed through it: it's dangerous because you're constantly taking your eyes off the road! People will make allowances for it because dynamically it's a good car - it really is - but it shouldn't HAVE to be like that. Volvo - or, more likely the Chinese patent company - has overcomplicated things but, as you say Tesla drivers seem to like it, so I guess it figured "If you can't beat them..."

It won't be the same setup in the new Polestars. Having seen and heard what people had said about EX30, the UK Polestar guys were straight into HQ to make sure they weren't going to get the same bad press!

I just dont understand how its anymore dangerous than a standard car, I only sent 5 minutes in one the other day but there was a left hand column stalk which looked like it was for indicators and wipers and a right hand column for gear shift. Lights and wipers are also automatic in most cars these days. Any changes to the settings of the car should generally be done whilst stationary. The only difference really is the speed and lack of a heads up display and I am telling you that after using cars without a heads up since 2019 there is absolutely no issue with this and I am not aware of any evidence that shows that it is dangerous.

Other things that people might use while driving like Media, navigation and Climate are normally located in the central area of a vehicle anyway and I would say are actually safer in the Tesla as the screen is so large and intuitive to use.

 

[Half Time Pies]

I've never tried using a touchscreen while driving, but are you genuinely saying that you can use it without looking at the screen? Or are you saying that looking at the road provides no safety advantage over looking at a screen? Either seems unlikely.

I certainly can't use my tablet touchscreen without looking at it. Maybe Teslas are different? Voice info or something? (I can adjust the heating in my much cheaper petrol Corsa without taking my eyes off the road.)

Its an interesting question but I would imagine that we momentarily look at stuff other than the road quite a lot more than we realise when driving, this could be looking directly at things or in our peripheral vision or just getting distracted by people in the car, functions of the car or stuff around us. The question is really not whether the touchscreen adverts the gaze but if it is adverted more or less than in a car with controls in physical buttons on the central consul and things like standard sat navs and media units. I dont know the answer to this, I only know from my own experience that it isnt an issue for me, but I did a quick search and this study from Directline showed that drivers in general on average are not looking directly at the road 18% of the time and that the use of a standard sat nav increases this to 22%! https://www.businessinsider.com/drivers-dont-look-at-road-18-of-time-2012-12?r=US&IR=T

 

[Johnny RoastBeef]

Sorry, but I can tell you there absolutely ARE issues with having a single screen on the EX30 where everything is fed through it: it's dangerous because you're constantly taking your eyes off the road! People will make allowances for it because dynamically it's a good car - it really is - but it shouldn't HAVE to be like that. Volvo - or, more likely the Chinese patent company - has overcomplicated things but, as you say Tesla drivers seem to like it, so I guess it figured "If you can't beat them..."

It won't be the same setup in the new Polestars. Having seen and heard what people had said about EX30, the UK Polestar guys were straight into HQ to make sure they weren't going to get the same bad press!

I drive an electric car without physical buttons to operate the climate functions, and within 24 hours I had mastered the use without the need to take more than a brief glance. These cars are also equipped with voice control anyway, so your quibble seems moot.

 

[chickens]

I’m afraid I’m with @Greg Bobkin on this one. I vastly prefer physical switchgear to touchscreen controls. There’s the safety aspect of navigating through menus while on the move, the fact that reflections off the glass can be distracting, and then there’s the fact that you need to keep a microfibre cloth in the car or have a vehicle with smeared fingerprints all over the screen.

I know it’s been a fad in car design thanks to Tesla, but it’s the aspect of Tesla’s I like least, and I absolutely don’t want other manufacturers following suit.

 

[Audax]

Theres absolutely no issues with having most of the controls through a central screen

Depends on the design of the touchscreen. The screen itself - I agree, it's not inherently any more dangerous than having the centre console riddled with switches and knobs. The software running the screen, though ... if it's well designed and intuitive to use and smart enough to prevent drivers trying to do things they shouldn't while on the move, then all good. But I've seen / heard of some touchscreen implementations that clearly haven't been thought through from the perspective of "safe driving comes first".

Other things that people might use while driving like Media, navigation and Climate are normally located in the central area of a vehicle anyway and I would say are actually safer in the Tesla as the screen is so large and intuitive to use.

I've not driven a Tesla (yet), so can't comment. But the screen in my Zoe sounds similar. There are some frustrating foibles (touch detection areas that aren't as forgiving as they could be, resulting in a need to touch more than once sometimes), but generally speaking using the screen for adjusting the radio takes no more of my attention away from the road than using the non-screen physical controls for the climate does. Ergonomically, the worst decision they made in the Zoe is putting the Eco mode on/off switch in the centre console right next to the hazard lights switch, and it's on the "wrong" side. It should really be on the steering wheel - when commuting I use that switch more often than any of the others, and it's the furthest away from the wheel and positioned so that if I miss it I get the hazards instead.

There’s the safety aspect of navigating through menus while on the move, the fact that reflections off the glass can be distracting, and then there’s the fact that you need to keep a microfibre cloth in the car or have a vehicle with smeared fingerprints all over the screen.

See above - if a driver is being asked to navigate through multiple menus on the move, that's bad software UX design and not an inherent issue of touch screens. It is possible to design the screens in such a way that they do not increase (and could potentially decrease!) distraction. Re: the fingerprints issue: never been a problem in my Zoe. The car did come supplied with a microfibre for cleaning the screen, but in 3.5 years I think I've only ever done it once and I've never had any issues with reflections from the touchscreen. Conversely, I've had to tell my Mrs to move her phone out of the sun to stop it reflecting right into my eyes multiple times...

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

One thing I really like about my shitty old banger I drive, is that there's basically no electronics at all telling what to do. I have a stereo, that's it. Any time I get in my mates cars and they have the car beeping for them when they don't put their seatbelt on, or worse stopping them changing lanes, it totally winds me up.

This is actually one of the things which is stopping me buying a new car.

The idea of paying extra for some expensive software, which I may or may not be able to turn off is one of the reasons i've not yet gone EV.

I don't even want a Sat Nav. I'd prefer to keep my cognitive abilities to work out where I am and where I need to get to from signs, hills, rivers etc

 

[Greg Bobkin]

I just dont understand how its anymore dangerous than a standard car, I only sent 5 minutes in one the other day but there was a left hand column stalk which looked like it was for indicators and wipers and a right hand column for gear shift. Lights and wipers are also automatic in most cars these days. Any changes to the settings of the car should generally be done whilst stationary. The only difference really is the speed and lack of a heads up display and I am telling you that after using cars without a heads up since 2019 there is absolutely no issue with this and I am not aware of any evidence that shows that it is dangerous.

Other things that people might use while driving like Media, navigation and Climate are normally located in the central area of a vehicle anyway and I would say are actually safer in the Tesla as the screen is so large and intuitive to use.

The biggest issue is that there's no driver display, just one screen that is offset, providing all the information you are fed. So if you want to look at your speed, the navigation, change the HVAC, alter the infotainment or anything else, you have to take your eyes off the road. Then, depending on what you want to get to, you might have to go through a series of menus to get to the right one. Not everything can be done when stationary – maybe it should do, but it's not.

The biggest problem I – and many others – have is that after driving so many other cars that get it 'right' (by giving drivers the options of physical buttons to they didn't HAVE to get used to anything) that Volvo gets it so 'wrong'. Due to costs and packaging (there's a sound bar that runs the length of the dash and therefore gets in the way) constraints, HUD isn't even an option. Again, it might not be an option to some people, but you would EXPECT there to be one if there is no driver display in front of you. I'm not saying NOT having an HUD is dangerous, but I do think having one single screen is.

The new driver alert safety feature that is creeping into models has a field day because if you are not looking at the road ahead (because you are figuring out where you are going, what radio station to choose, or audio output) it goes mental and tells you off. Via the screen in the centre, once again forcing you to look AWAY from the road.

I get it, as I said that some people won't have a problem with it. Tesla has gone down this road and those people love it (just like the majority of them love everything about the cars). But to me they are not as good as other brands – for a number of reasons, not just the HMI. But that's another matter and they clearly have a big fan club.

I drive an electric car without physical buttons to operate the climate functions, and within 24 hours I had mastered the use without the need to take more than a brief glance. These cars are also equipped with voice control anyway, so your quibble seems moot.

Ah voice control. Great when it works, an absolute bellend when it doesn't. The list of issues I've had with it across a wide range of vehicles (ICE and EV) is long. Not understanding a simple name from my phone address book, failing to recognise simple commands ('volume up', or 'play radio 1', for example) and wind/cabin noise affecting what it hears are just three. It's very manufacturer dependent and can be impacted when you're running AppleCarPlay/Android Auto, too.

And sometimes people don't want to use their voice to control things. It shouldn't be the only option, especially not when the whole system fails, which is more common that you might think...

 

[Half Time Pies]

The biggest issue is that there's no driver display, just one screen that is offset, providing all the information you are fed. So if you want to look at your speed, the navigation, change the HVAC, alter the infotainment or anything else, you have to take your eyes off the road. Then, depending on what you want to get to, you might have to go through a series of menus to get to the right one. Not everything can be done when stationary – maybe it should do, but it's not.

The biggest problem I – and many others – have is that after driving so many other cars that get it 'right' (by giving drivers the options of physical buttons to they didn't HAVE to get used to anything) that Volvo gets it so 'wrong'. Due to costs and packaging (there's a sound bar that runs the length of the dash and therefore gets in the way) constraints, HUD isn't even an option. Again, it might not be an option to some people, but you would EXPECT there to be one if there is no driver display in front of you. I'm not saying NOT having an HUD is dangerous, but I do think having one single screen is.

The new driver alert safety feature that is creeping into models has a field day because if you are not looking at the road ahead (because you are figuring out where you are going, what radio station to choose, or audio output) it goes mental and tells you off. Via the screen in the centre, once again forcing you to look AWAY from the road.

I get it, as I said that some people won't have a problem with it. Tesla has gone down this road and those people love it (just like the majority of them love everything about the cars). But to me they are not as good as other brands – for a number of reasons, not just the HMI. But that's another matter and they clearly have a big fan club.

Ah voice control. Great when it works, an absolute bellend when it doesn't. The list of issues I've had with it across a wide range of vehicles (ICE and EV) is long. Not understanding a simple name from my phone address book, failing to recognise simple commands ('volume up', or 'play radio 1', for example) and wind/cabin noise affecting what it hears are just three. It's very manufacturer dependent and can be impacted when you're running AppleCarPlay/Android Auto, too.

And sometimes people don't want to use their voice to control things. It shouldn't be the only option, especially not when the whole system fails, which is more common that you might think...

As Audax has just pointed out it really depends a lot on how the software is designed on the touchscreen and also where it is in your vision. On my drive to work this morning I noticed that the speed, warning lights and other key indicators are up in the far right hand corner of the screen slightly to the left of the steering wheel. It's a slight and momentary glance to the left to view these directly. On a car with a heads up display you would be looking down, you still cant look at them directly with out momentarily taking your eye of the road and I don't believe the distance your eyes have to move is much different, its just in a different direction. I don't think there is a 'right' or 'wrong' way of doing this sort of thing, it's just different and I think if you were to drive a tesla or the volvo for even a short period of time you would be surprised at how quickly you would get used to it.

The software on the Tesla is absolutely brilliant and the main reason why I still buy them, its constantly evolving and improving and it blows away anything that the legacy manufacturers have come up with.

 

[Greg Bobkin]

As Audax has just pointed out it really depends a lot on how the software is designed on the touchscreen and also where it is in your vision. On my drive to work this morning I noticed that the speed, warning lights and other key indicators are up in the far right hand corner of the screen slightly to the left of the steering wheel. It's a slight and momentary glance to the left to view these directly. On a car with a heads up display you would be looking down, you still cant look at them directly with out momentarily taking your eye of the road and I don't believe the distance your eyes have to move is much different, its just in a different direction. I don't think there is a 'right' or 'wrong' way of doing this sort of thing, it's just different and I think if you were to drive a tesla or the volvo for even a short period of time you would be surprised at how quickly you would get used to it.

The software on the Tesla is absolutely brilliant and the main reason why I still buy them, its constantly evolving and improving and it blows away anything that the legacy manufacturers have come up with.

I mean, I've driven numerous Teslas and spent two days covering about 400 miles as a driver and passenger in both versions of the EX30 – and shared the launch with a number of other journos who had similar conclusions to mine – but sure

The point is that drivers shouldn't HAVE to 'get used to it'.

 

[nicko31]

Theres absolutely no issues with having most of the controls through a central screen, Tesla have been doing this for years and I have owned 3 of them without any issues and theres certainly nothing dangerous about it. The HMI in the ID 3 got slated primarily because it was laggy and had lots of bugs and software issues, nothing to do with a lack of physical buttons and switches. Contrast this with the touchscreen in the Tesla which is intuitive and responsive and is constantly being improved and updated via over the air software updates. I did have a quick look at the EX30 the other day and the touchscreen looked pretty good to me and presumably similar to the one in the polestar which is owned by the same company.

I find the 2 things that let the ID3 down are small boot and poor HMI, aside of that my 77kw version will do 300 miles if you drive it gently and its a great drive.

Tesla's a good computers but are they well built cars? Expensive to fix too...

 

[Bry Nylon]

I have a Tesla model 3 and really, really don't like the screen. I spend way too much time dicking about with it to execute what should be very simple and intuitive tasks.