[News] Electric car batteries with five-minute charging times produced

[nwgull]

I think that, even now, electric car manufacturers are missing a trick.

At present, most people's concern - and part of the whole culture of driving - is in not running out of fuel. And with a petrol station rarely more than 10 miles away, even in rural areas, you'd do well to cock up your fuel tank.

An idea - get owners of electric cars to pay on a contract basis, like a mobile phone or broadband, for electric fuel cell usage. That way, when they're out on the road, and the battery needs a charge, you simply pull into an electric battery refuelling station (no reason why it can't be where petrol stations are), put your card in a slot, and simply take your old battery out, and replace it with a fully charged one off the shelf in the station.

Then the old battery gets re-charged for the next person to use.

A battery may only get you 100 miles but (a) as technology improves, so does the distance and (b) you have the peace of mind of knowing the infrastructure is there.

It may be a bit of a pain in the arse right now, but that's the nature of where we're at.

The practicalities of taking out and replacing the battery of an electric car 150 times a year are numerous.

 

[zefarelly]

Given that it damn-near drains out to nothing at low tide, where would you suggest putting the machinery?

On the empty quayside @ Humphreys gap, before they build more sheds. . . . the rest is just a wall.

It wouldn't need to be massive.

 

[The Large One]

The practicalities of taking out and replacing the battery of an electric car 150 times a year are numerous.

Not if the engine were designed that the battery was (a) the size of a current battery and (b) easily accessible.

Either snap-in/snap-out, or removable only with the turn of the key of the car.

The first thing most industrialised organisations do once they realise they have a functioning component or item is miniaturisation.

 

[The Large One]

On the empty quayside @ Humphreys gap, before they build more sheds. . . . the rest is just a wall.

It wouldn't need to be massive.

In order to make it worthwhile, yes it would. The technology is still very expensive now.

Besides, any underwater instruments will render the river unpassable except at the time of the highest tides.

 

[schmunk]

Not if the engine were designed that the battery was (a) the size of a current battery and (b) easily accessible.

Either snap-in/snap-out, or removable only with the turn of the key of the car.

The first thing most industrialised organisations do once they realise they have a functioning component or item is miniaturisation.

The big flat silver bit here is the battery pack for a Tesla Model S, with a range of ca. 200-400 miles (depending on version and driving style).

Here is the battery pack for the BMW i3 - max range 180 miles

A 'battery' sized battery? About 5 miles max...? I suppose you could carry a few more as spares in the boot?

 

[Driver8]

Not if the engine were designed that the battery was (a) the size of a current battery and (b) easily accessible.

Either snap-in/snap-out, or removable only with the turn of the key of the car.

The first thing most industrialised organisations do once they realise they have a functioning component or item is miniaturisation.

This is the battery pack from a Tesla Model 3.

It sits under the floor of the car.

I can’t see “swappable” batteries any time soon.

 

[Seasidesage]

Combustion engine was invented in 1860 so people are complaining that electric cars have yet to evolve as far as an engine 160 years old?

My electric car has a range of 330m 0-60 in 4 secs and can be recharged in about 25 mins from empty at a supercharger. I've had it 6 months and only needed to use a supercharger once. Admittedly for obvious reasons I'm travelling less but I've still been to Birmingham/London etc. It's a mistake to think about it in the same terms as a petrol car, you petrol car is not being filled up overnight unless you live in a garage an electric car is.

I love mine and with the considerable added tax advantages would not go back to petrol willingly and that's before any battery technology advancements
plus it works out at about 4p a mile to run....

 

[nwgull]

Not if the engine were designed that the battery was (a) the size of a current battery and (b) easily accessible.

Either snap-in/snap-out, or removable only with the turn of the key of the car.

The first thing most industrialised organisations do once they realise they have a functioning component or item is miniaturisation.

Off you go and design it then. I'm sure the reason that the auto industry hasn't yet incorporated batteries that are interchangeable across brands, models and sizes of car that can be practicably removed/replace every couple of days is because no one was as clever as you to have thought of it.

 

[The Large One]

Off you go and design it then. I'm sure the reason that the auto industry hasn't yet incorporated batteries that are interchangeable across brands, models and sizes of car that can be practicably removed/replace every couple of days is because no one was as clever as you to have thought of it.

 

[Icy Gull]

Given that over 150000 Teslas have just been recalled for dashboard screen problems it’s not problem free motoring yet.

Have I mentioned that I find Electric cars lack any soul at all? Maybe that makes me biased. If you want A to B motoring on the cheap (after a high purchase price) and don’t care if the car is interesting to drive that probably won’t matter

 

[The Large One]

The big flat silver bit here is the battery pack for a Tesla Model S, with a range of ca. 200-400 miles (depending on version and driving style).

Here is the battery pack for the BMW i3 - max range 180 miles

A 'battery' sized battery? About 5 miles max...? I suppose you could carry a few more as spares in the boot?

This is the battery pack from a Tesla Model 3.

It sits under the floor of the car.

I can’t see “swappable” batteries any time soon.

Fair points. But compare the size of Alan Turing's computer in the 1940s to the gradual miniaturised computers - far more powerful - that you carry in your pocket.

Even compare it to the desktop computers just 30 years after he made his first computer.

This time around, with precedent in place, I'd be confident of a replaceable battery within 10-15 years. Gawd knows how it will happen, I just am...

 

[beorhthelm]

Combustion engine was invented in 1860 so people are complaining that electric cars have yet to evolve as far as an engine 160 years old?

for comparison electric motor invented in 1832 and batteries before that. the pace has been much slower for electric, in part because ICE was easier to develop and petrol/diesel have much higher energy density.

dont worry about the cost per mile, road pricing will be along soon to solve that.

 

[portslade seagull]

There are certainly challenges, but we already have hydrogen powered buses.

My son works for Green Flag and is into cars bigtime. He has always said Hydrogen is the way to go and LA has a few in existence. Batteries are just a stepping stone

 

[happypig]

The fast charging isn't really required from a home charger. Like you say the average domestic set up doesn't permit it, but could be a real game changer at commercial filling stations with the appropriate infrastructure.

I initially had a plug-in hybrid that only had about 30 miles fully electric range. Doesn't sound much, but I could go for over 3 months without having to put petrol in as most of my journeys were completed on battery power. Sold me on electric and got myself a fully electric car last summer.

A pal of mine has a petrol plug in. he got a message the other week saying his petrol had gone manky and to do a drive on petrol then fill it.
I'm not sure I wouldn't experience the same, given my low miles.

Can you set the charging rate somehow ? I've got solar panels and would like to "trickle" charge whenever I can if I buy one.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

It's a shame the Swansea tidal scheme was refused.

"Offshore wind becomes economical in the 2030s without subsidies, tidal never becomes competitive without government support" is the reason given...

 

[drew]

past the headline...


so jam tomorrow. 4 years from being delivered, need special charges and even then considerably poorer range than existing. this is not the solution you are looking for, move along.

So to travel 300 miles requires a couple of 5 minute stops, big deal. Alternatively, some cars already have a range exceeding 300m and for those that are over 200m then you only have one 5 minute stop to complete the journey.

If you read the article, it says a full charge in 5 minutes with the special charges but without the special charging equipment then it can charge in 5 minutes enough for 100m. Expansion of infrastructure will expand rapidly on the basis that in 9 years time you won't be able to buy a brand new ICE vehicle!!!

 

[beorhthelm]

Fair points. But compare the size of Alan Turing's computer in the 1940s to the gradual miniaturised computers - far more powerful - that you carry in your pocket.

its simply not comparable to electronics. miniaturisation isnt a standard property of all technologies, sometimes they just dont scale down. or the production processes dont scale up. microprocessors benefited from both and in past decade new ways of managing processing.

batteries do not scale down, they have physical limitations to how much power can be stored and how fast it can get in or out. charging required power in, more power needed means longer or higher throughput that we dont have infrastructure for that. not just the wait times, the electricity needed to replace the ICE fleet is a major issue (and domestic heating while we're at it).

the point about replaceable batteries is a good one and often suggested. trouble is batteries are being built into the chassis of vehciles for efficent space. right now there isnt even agreement on charging systems, so a standard battery pack is some way off. then there is weight of the battery, half a ton is not managable for many, so will have to revert to serviced change, adding costs. not insurmountable but a challenge that isnt in the car manufacturers plans.

 

[nwgull]

A pal of mine has a petrol plug in. he got a message the other week saying his petrol had gone manky and to do a drive on petrol then fill it.
I'm not sure I wouldn't experience the same, given my low miles.

Can you set the charging rate somehow ? I've got solar panels and would like to "trickle" charge whenever I can if I buy one.

I just have a standard home charger fitted in my driveway. I don't know if you can get chargers that facilitate that.

 

[drew]

"Offshore wind becomes economical in the 2030s without subsidies, tidal never becomes competitive without government support" is the reason given...

But with government subsidy, when does it become economical?

 

[nwgull]

its simply not comparable to electronics. miniaturisation isnt a standard property of all technologies, sometimes they just dont scale down. or the production processes dont scale up. microprocessors benefited from both and in past decade new ways of managing processing.

batteries do not scale down, they have physical limitations to how much power can be stored and how fast it can get in or out. charging required power in, more power needed means longer or higher throughput that we dont have infrastructure for that. not just the wait times, the electricity needed to replace the ICE fleet is a major issue (and domestic heating while we're at it).

the point about replaceable batteries is a good one and often suggested. trouble is batteries are being built into the chassis of vehciles for efficent space. right now there isnt even agreement on charging systems, so a standard battery pack is some way off. then there is weight of the battery, half a ton is not managable for many, so will have to revert to serviced change, adding costs. not insurmountable but a challenge that isnt in the car manufacturers plans.

Don't waste your time. He will never admit to being wrong.