Dont confuse Christianity with religion

[clapham_gull]

The thread title makes absolute no sense whatever. Don't confuse "Christ with Christianity" possibly, but religion ?

Christianity IS A RELIGION.

Nonsense.

Unless the thread starter is proposing that it's the ONLY religion, it which case I can't believe I bothered to express an opinion.

 

[Bodular]

Do I get wings ?
If i get wings then I'm in !!!

I'm sure they can throw in a copy of Venus and mars

 

[dingodan]

I think we are part of something much greater than we have the capacity to understand.

 

[Superphil]

(for the record, I'm not Christian, nor do I believe in God)

Whats with the Nazar in your avatar?

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

what i don't understand is why christianity as a whole is judged by outsiders due to the actions of a few, completely ignoring all the good it does

i don't judge atheists by the actions of stalin, for example

Perhaps it because the church has hidden these individuals thus implicating themselves in their evil.

 

[BadFish]

what i don't understand is why christianity as a whole is judged by outsiders due to the actions of a few, completely ignoring all the good it does

i don't judge atheists by the actions of stalin, for example

this thread is in reaction to a vote that was taken on whether women should be allowed to hold position of power in the Anglican church. The majority voted no and they are not allowed to do so. The actions of the few you are talking about have made a pretty big impact on this particular topic.

UNfortunately the actions of the few will always taint the organization of which they belong... look at the thread about the BBC still continuing with Children in Need.

Or maybe we should look at the continuing investigations into the Australian Catholic church and child abuse the few responsible for that were protected by the cover up which appears to go all the way to the Vatican. In this case if it was the few that were guilty then it seems to be many that were complicit in the cover up.

If there were a few in an organisation of which I were a member that were doing wrong I would be doing my very best to deal with them in the appropriate manner.

 

[BadFish]

The thread title makes absolute no sense whatever. Don't confuse "Christ with Christianity" possibly, but religion ?

Christianity IS A RELIGION.

Nonsense.

Unless the thread starter is proposing that it's the ONLY religion, it which case I can't believe I bothered to express an opinion.

To be fair the thread starter has disappeared into the ether so I suspect they know they were fishing and talking shit.

 

[catfish]

hey fellow Albion fans there is no need to be offensive and use abusive language is there ! im allowed to air my views the same as the next person , Religion is a man made word its nothing to do with Christianity , i could religiously wash my car every-week , in fact Jesus is quoted as disliking the word " religion " because it separates people , many faiths are religious in like they feel they need to do something or wear something to be qualified , the church of England and Catholic churches are very much like this in fact Catholic churches say the only way to God is through the Pope ie confession , the Pope is also never mentioned in the Bible , Jesus said all we need to do is believe and come as we are with all our baggage , nothing religious there .

Pea brain.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

Causes Segregation
Sexism
Homophobic values
Rife with paedophilia
False hope
Preaches lies

Is that ok for starters?

Sexism - the current farce aside, for the most part the Churches would combat sexism. I am neither an Anglican or a catholic, though, so am not involved in all the women priests stuff.
Homophobic values - I can understand how people form that view because of the gay marriage stuff and because of a few highly publicised cases of narrow-minded bigoted Christian Couples being (quite rightly) prosecuted for not allowing gay couples to share a bed in their guest house so on, but the truth would be that the Churches are more accepting of gay people than many/most other parts of society.
Rife with Paedophilia - Although there have been a number of cases, i think "rife" is an overstatement.
False Hope - If this is along the lines of "Religion being the opiate of the masses" a la Marx, because it doesn't matter what crap you have to put up with in this life because the next life will be ok, then it needs to be said that most would take the line in the Lord's prayer "Thy Kingdom Come, On earth, as it is in Heaven" seriously. The on earth means that a great deal of effort is expended in supporting the most vulnerable people in society. The Churches were the Welfare State before the Welfare State was developed, and seem to be taking that mantle on again to an increasing extent now.
Preaches Lies - Well that is just a matter of opinion. One can't prove there is a God, which is where faith comes in, but I would challenge you to prove that there isn't a God..... presuming that is what you are talking about when saying preaches lies.
Edit - sorry, i missed out "causes segregation". Not really sure what you mean there unless it is just about the current women Bishops stuff and the homophobic values stuff already mentioned. But in practice I think the Churches do more to bring people together than they do to split them apart. The trouble is that it is the extremes that get the publicity. Good news is not news.

 

[pastafarian]

If you don't believe in God, does it matter which one you don't believe in.

i think in this case it does

 

[Bhafcman]

In my experience those with faith are a lot more content with life than atheists, purely because they have hope - hope is a powerful thing. Equally they always have someone to support and guide them in times of need - God. Whether he exists or not isn't important, but the effect that the belief in him has on people is incredible.

I would argue that the nihilistic view that the world and life is ultimately pointless, and we should live for today and overindulge in pointless hedonism, along with the fear of death and the pressure to live our lives to the fullest, is far more damaging.

It's the simpler things in life that are the root of contentment & happiness - love, family , community, goodness, spirituality - All things that Christianity actively encourages, and society is losing.

But wouldn't you agree that you can have these things without believing that a Jewish guy died for you 2000 years ago and if you don't accept him into your life you will be damned for an eternity? Or is the Jesus thing just a recruiting tool so that the Church stays relevant

 

[BadFish]

Sexism - the current farce aside, for the most part the Churches would combat sexism. I am neither an Anglican or a catholic, though, so am not involved in all the women priests stuff.
Homophobic values - I can understand how people form that view because of the gay marriage stuff and because of a few highly publicised cases of narrow-minded bigoted Christian Couples being (quite rightly) prosecuted for not allowing gay couples to share a bed in their guest house so on, but the truth would be that the Churches are more accepting of gay people than many/most other parts of society.
Rife with Paedophilia - Although there have been a number of cases, i think "rife" is an overstatement.
False Hope - If this is along the lines of "Religion being the opiate of the masses" a la Marx, because it doesn't matter what crap you have to put up with in this life because the next life will be ok, then it needs to be said that most would take the line in the Lord's prayer "Thy Kingdom Come, On earth, as it is in Heaven" seriously. The on earth means that a great deal of effort is expended in supporting the most vulnerable people in society. The Churches were the Welfare State before the Welfare State was developed, and seem to be taking that mantle on again to an increasing extent now.
Preaches Lies - Well that is just a matter of opinion. One can't prove there is a God, which is where faith comes in, but I would challenge you to prove that there isn't a God..... presuming that is what you are talking about when saying preaches lies.

The poster was responding this this challenge

I challenge any of you to name just one way that Christianity damages our society in the UK?

Are you saying that Christianity doesn't damage our society in any way?

You have addressed each point the poster made in a very logical and reasonable manner but your post does not deny that the notion that they damage society.

 

[turienzo's lovechild]

Perhaps it because the church has hidden these individuals thus implicating themselves in their evil.

yes, the church...an institution. I certainly don't agree with any of their actions, so why am I, as a christian, judged by them?

pedophilia and the whole cover up thing are not christian acts in my view

 

[beorhthelm]

... One can't prove there is a God, which is where faith comes in, but I would challenge you to prove that there isn't a God.....

well that kinda depends on your definition of god of course, but explain how famine exists in a world under a benevolent, powerful god? and if your god isnt those things, why bother with that one when another might be?

 

[D'Angelo Saxon]

Whats with the Nazar in your avatar?

Its a bonjuk isn't it? (I have no idea how to spell that word) - and as far as I know, more of a good luck charm than a religious trinket...

 

[turienzo's lovechild]

The poster was responding this this challenge



Are you saying that Christianity doesn't damage our society in any way?

You have addressed each point the poster made in a very logical and reasonable manner but your post does not deny that the notion that they damage society.

I can only go on what I believe but if you strip down Christianity to it's core beliefs of essentially being a nice person, how can anyone claim that it does harm?

People who act, in my view, in an un-christian manner, but in the NAME of Christianity (or other religions) harm society....I have nothing in common with a paedo priest, a sexist, a homophobe, a suicide bomber etc. etc. etc.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

this thread is in reaction to a vote that was taken on whether women should be allowed to hold position of power in the Anglican church. The majority voted no and they are not allowed to do so. The actions of the few you are talking about have made a pretty big impact on this particular topic.

UNfortunately the actions of the few will always taint the organization of which they belong... look at the thread about the BBC still continuing with Children in Need.

Or maybe we should look at the continuing investigations into the Australian Catholic church and child abuse the few responsible for that were protected by the cover up which appears to go all the way to the Vatican. In this case if it was the few that were guilty then it seems to be many that were complicit in the cover up.

If there were a few in an organisation of which I were a member that were doing wrong I would be doing my very best to deal with them in the appropriate manner.

Just to point out that the majority did not vote no - in fact quite the opposite. there are three voting groups - Bishops, Clergy and laity, and each one has to have a two thirds majority. The Bishops voted comfortably for - 48-3, the clergy fairly comfortably for, something like 148-45, but the Laity failed to reach the two thirds majority by something like 3 votes, so the majority in each group actually voted yes.

And I think it was clear from listening to the outgoing Archbish today that he thinks the whole thing is pretty bl@@dy stupid. But he's presumably limited in what he can do.

 

[BadFish]

Just to point out that the majority did not vote no - in fact quite the opposite. there are three voting groups - Bishops, Clergy and laity, and each one has to have a two thirds majority. The Bishops voted comfortably for - 48-3, the clergy fairly comfortably for, something like 148-45, but the Laity failed to reach the two thirds majority by something like 3 votes, so the majority in each group actually voted yes.

And I think it was clear from listening to the outgoing Archbish today that he thinks the whole thing is pretty bl@@dy stupid. But he's presumably limited in what he can do.

So who is in charge of this stupid system where the minority get to choose what goes on? Somebody somewhere must be able to change the system.

 

[pastafarian]

Preaches Lies - Well that is just a matter of opinion. One can't prove there is a God, which is where faith comes in, but I would challenge you to prove that there isn't a God..... presuming that is what you are talking about when saying preaches lies.

that would be a pointless exercise which i am sure you know

it might help you to know that as an atheist i am 99.99% convinced given all the evidence that there are absolutely no Gods.
i think i would be foolish to say i know with 100% conviction this was the case.
i can however tell you if the Christian God revealed himself tomorrow i would be the first to say bugger me the religious types were right all along.....dont i look like a plank!
the difference is i would be first in the queue to tell God i hope you dont think you can rely on my vote.......i think you are an evil egotistic **** and i want nothing to do with you

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

The poster was responding this this challenge



Are you saying that Christianity doesn't damage our society in any way?

You have addressed each point the poster made in a very logical and reasonable manner but your post does not deny that the notion that they damage society.

Of course Christianity is perfect..... not.

Point taken, but some people sometimes seem to imply that religion is responsible for all the ills of society. i probably over-reacted.