Does the education system hold teh key to long term success on the international stage?

[Cat Fish]

After Englands world cup exit I started to think about my football education at school. I am 41 years old and went to secondary school at a time when there was little or no interest in sport. There were no after school clubs for sport and P.E. was a bit of a joke. We were more likely to play Danish Longball or Softball than play Football or Cricket.

I played in the school football team which basically played friendlies against other schools and one cup competition in the 5th year. My abiding memory of football at school was that there was zero training, zero tactical discussions and zero feedback. We really just got on with it ourselves.

Should the education system focus on the key sports of Football, Rugby, Cricket, Tennis and Athletics and cut every other sport to ensure the maximum time is spent playing our most popular sports?

If every secondary school had fully qualified coaches in these sports (part funded by the FA, RFU, LTA and MCC) then we would ensure that no talented child would slip through the net.

The above would be obviously expensive but an option could be certain schools specialising in just one or two of the sports than all of them.

 

[KZNSeagull]

Partially, although I am surprised at the sport you played at school. I went to a comprehensive (age 47) and we played Football, Cricket and Rugby against other comprehensives. Our teacher was an ex pro. The key I think is spotting talent early and passing them onto qualified coaches - anyone of talent at our school in Cuckfield usually ended up at Southampton for football or Harlequins for Rugby.

Talent spotting, loads of qualified coaches and easy access to top quality academies are key here. Schools would help, but generally government schools do not play enough sport even if the did play football, have the coaches etc.

It is the same here - the private schools produce most of the sporting talent (hence why quotas have not worked) but the coaches are usually excellent particularly at high school (Age 13 to 18). Many government schools have little or no access to sport, particularly the ones in poorer areas. This is what FIFA's legacy was supposed to be all about, but of course very little has happened.

 

[acrossthepond]

It's not just sport, it's all areas of education.

Success/growth requires investment - both in people and facilities - and though it's great that Albion have this swanky new training centre, it's only a very small part of the solution on a national level.

 

[The Spanish]

Partially, although I am surprised at the sport you played at school. I went to a comprehensive (age 47) and we played Football, Cricket and Rugby against other comprehensives. Our teacher was an ex pro. The key I think is spotting talent early and passing them onto qualified coaches - anyone of talent at our school in Cuckfield usually ended up at Southampton for football or Harlequins for Rugby.

Talent spotting, loads of qualified coaches and easy access to top quality academies are key here. Schools would help, but generally government schools do not play enough sport even if the did play football, have the coaches etc.

It is the same here - the private schools produce most of the sporting talent (hence why quotas have not worked) but the coaches are usually excellent particularly at high school (Age 13 to 18). Many government schools have little or no access to sport, particularly the ones in poorer areas. This is what FIFA's legacy was supposed to be all about, but of course very little has happened.

at 41 the OP is of the age where teachers were essentially working to rule mid eighties on extra curricular activities. Not many people at state schools got much sport at that time.

 

[Return of the Rev]

Blooming schools that have funding for sports facilities then over charge the public or leave unused is a scandal,sorry the caretaker does not work sundays so the facility is closed!

 

[Dan Aitch]

The education system should concentrate on second language skills if it's to be designed with the advancement of football in mind. Until we have more young players prepared to sign for academies of teams based overseas, they'll continue to have to fight for the fewer available places with English teams (based on overseas young players signing for English clubs). I imagine the 'Bonn Jure Jer Mapple Shane' language capability limits quite substantially the desire of players to go overseas, and the desire of overseas clubs to sign these self-conscious, stuttering and reluctant-to-learn youngsters.

Work on broadening horizons, and encouraging everyone (including parents) to see that just as much (if not more) in the way of footballing development can be obtained by widening your experience as young as posssible and that where getting your football education in concerned, England is most-definitely not 'best'... and then see where we are in 20 years time.

 

[acrossthepond]

at 41 the OP is of the age where teachers were essentially working to rule mid eighties on extra curricular activities. Not many people at state schools got much sport at that time.

Bang on - there weren't none, innit...

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

at 41 the OP is of the age where teachers were essentially working to rule mid eighties on extra curricular activities. Not many people at state schools got much sport at that time.

It's tricky when Thatcher sells off your football field for houses.

 

[beorhthelm]

no. those countries that have "done something" about their national side start off by creating an academy system for prospective footballers, pulling them out of mainstream education early. there simply isn't the coaching or time to dedicate to football (or other sports) in the normal education framework.

 

[Gullflyinghigh]

Should the education system focus on the key sports of Football, Rugby, Cricket, Tennis and Athletics and cut every other sport to ensure the maximum time is spent playing our most popular sports?

I agree with a lot of the points/ideas in your post but the one I've quoted is something that I'd be deeply uncomfortable with.

When I was at senior school I chose to do 'team sports', which included some of those you've mentioned alongside basketball, hockey and a few others. Whilst I was always going to enjoy football and rugby the most I'm glad that others were included, I'd never have known whether I liked playing them otherwise.

It's not worth forgetting that many kids don't like sport at the best of times, trying to force their hands into a few sports to improve national prospects, at the cost of their enthusiasm/enjoyment, just isn't worth it as it could turn some off of sport for good, which would be a great loss.

As for the focus on tactical teaching, surely that isn't the point of a PE lesson as it takes the focus away from the physical element and puts it onto the theoretical, which is fair enough as long as the kids are interested (unless you meant specifically within football teams, then you're absolutely right).

Love the idea about qualified coaches though, imagine it would cost a fortune but to have a deeper cross-sport knowledge in teaching could only ever be good.

 

[paul wickens]

It's tricky when Thatcher sells off your football field for houses.

I was lucky enough to enjoy a good programme of sport at school with plenty of fixtures (including Saturday mornings) and decent levels of coaching; this was in the early 80s before the teaching strike. Today, there is a far better club structure than there used to be with improved coaching and better development pathways. Clubs have taken the place of schools in some areas in providing opportunities to participate. Many schools just give a 'taster' of many sports and the clubs and the clubs provide more for the more talented / interested.
The problem seems to be the appalling lack of decent facilities especially in Football. Kids expected to play on mud heaps or bone hard surfaces with no grass doesn't help skill development. The investment in 3G pitches which can be used for other sports as well has to be the way forward. If all premier league footballers gave 0.5 % of their weekly wage to fund grass roots facilities this problem would disappear overnight.

 

[Pavilionaire]

I think that if you want kids to develop and improve their skills then it's difficult to see how a school can do this as effectively as a properly-run sports club, e.g. this season my 8 year-old has been coached by Chelsea on a Wednesday after school, has Fridays as club practice and Saturdays as match day. No state school can compete with that, and it also enables my son to mix with other kids he doesn't go to school with, which is important for his development.

I think schools need to expose kids to different sports and maintain good links with clubs that run different sports in the area, and encourage those kids with obvious natural ability to try out for those clubs.

From what experience I've seen, any kid who is good at football these days will at some stage either been seen by a scout or have the opportunity to train with a professional club. I'd expect far less to fall through the net now than, say, 30 years ago.

 

[Sergei's Celebration]

It's tricky when Thatcher sells off your football field for houses.

Just in case you missed the story from a few years back. Its happened under every government; Tory, Labour, coalition.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pol...off-under-Labour-Government-figures-show.html

http://www.theguardian.com/education/2012/aug/19/tories-biggest-sellers-school-playing-fields

 

[Nibble]

Public schools produce the best sports people except for football and athletics.

 

[Creaky]

Wednesday afternoons was compulsory 'sport' for the whole school - cricket or tennis in the summer, rugby or basketball in the winter. All pupils had to take part at some level.

To make up for the lost 'classroom time' Saturdays were a half day of normal schooling.

This system seemed to have one of two effects on the pupils - they either ended up loving or hating sport with nothing in between

 

[The Spanish]

It's tricky when Thatcher sells off your football field for houses.

what schools in brighton during that period had their playing fields sold for housing?

 

[Shropshire Seagull]

Can't speak for football but certainly can for cricket.

Exactly what you suggest has already been happening since 2005 under http://www.chancetoshine.org/

Fundamentally this is bringing in qualified cricket coaches [min L2] to coach both curriculum PE and after school clubs. Funding is through the Cricket Foundation charity although in the last couple of years schools have been asked to make contributions. The idea is simple: link cricket clubs to local primary and secondary schools, pay qualified cricket coaches to deliver cricket sessions and matches in schools, train teachers and encourage children to come and play at cricket clubs.

I've coached on this scheme now for 7 years and the schools that get involved are always keen to do the same the following year.

In terms of the thread title, the model is that local clubs will pick up some of these school kids through C2S, the clubs feed the county age group set up and the county set up feeds first class academies / county clubs and ultimately the international squads [one of our club girls has progressed to full Warwickshire ladies and is also in the England Dev squad].

I'm sure the FA will have looked at the chance to shine model - but I've no idea of any intention to take up anything similar.

 

[Shropshire Seagull]

Diversity is our downfall.

I often find myself in conversation about elite cricket performance and am questioned why England cannot lead the world at "their own national game". I'm quick to point out that we also invented football and rugby too and we don't dominate them either. In fact that is the issue, diversity dilutes quality, here are some examples.

What sporting options to German schools offer their boys? Probably not cricket nor rugby, they focus on football; outcome world class football team but no-hopers in rugby and cricket on the world stage.

What sporting options to New Zealand schools offer their boys? Probably both cricket and rugby, and little focus on football; outcome world class rugby and cricket teams but no-hopers in football on the world stage.

What sporting options to Indian / Pakistani / Bangladeshi / Sri Lankan schools offer their boys? Probably only cricket, and little focus on rugby and football; outcome world class cricket [test-playing] teams but no-hopers in rugby or football on the world stage.

Okay, you can drop in other mainstream global sports like Hockey and Athletics, etc. but you see the emerging problem.

It would seem that if you want to be the very best in a given sport then focus is needed to the detriment of other distractions / options. Actually, that's pretty obvious, isn't it?

So, if England continues with the broad provision of a wide diversity of sports I think it likely that we will continue to be quite good on the world stage but only occasionally best in the world. 1966 football, 2003 rugby, 2009 T20, Aug-11 to Aug-12 ICC Test rankings, you get the picture .......

So maybe the real [hypothetical] question is, what sport would you drop, to be best in the world at which other sport?

 

[RexCathedra]

no. those countries that have "done something" about their national side start off by creating an academy system for prospective footballers, pulling them out of mainstream education early. there simply isn't the coaching or time to dedicate to football (or other sports) in the normal education framework.

This was the constant refrain in a number of articles about when/whether the US would ever punch at its weight in world football. Our player-development system is almost exclusively delivered by schools and universities.

 

[beorhthelm]

This was the constant refrain in a number of articles about when/whether the US would ever punch at its weight in world football. Our player-development system is almost exclusively delivered by schools and universities.

and look how after all this time a population of >300m has produced a couple of keepers and a couple of forwards of note, and has imported 5 German raised players.