Did I just say well done Cameron?

[SULLY COULDNT SHOOT]

David Cameron warns EU not to shut Turkey out | Politics | The Guardian

Im am never going to support Tory domestic policy but on this he has hit the nail on the head.

If Europe wants to continue to have their eastern borders protected they have to get Turkey into the EU because the political stasis here makes it impossible for any governement to support the development necessary for this country. Opening all the chapters and bringing Turkey up to EU standard will do this. Secondly, Turkey will have the second largest votes yield in the EU if it joins and all of them will be in the UK's camp (against French and German interests). It's a win-win scenario for the UK.

Turkey is not an angel by any means and it does have issues. I live here, I should know but this IS one animal you want in your backyard, not your neighbour's.

 

[Gwylan]

He's right but he's only continuing UK policy.

The Germans and, especially, the French are paranoid about the Turks getting into the EU. The Turks have gone along with a lot of European demands - improving human rights and abolishing the death penalty - but the EU keeps shifting the goalposts.

 

[SULLY COULDNT SHOOT]

He's right but he's only continuing UK policy.

The Germans and, especially, the French are paranoid about the Turks getting into the EU. The Turks have gone along with a lot of European demands - improving human rights and abolishing the death penalty - but the EU keeps shifting the goalposts.

That's true... but I haven't heard such a strong statement for a very long time

 

[ROKERITE]

I'm disgusted by Cameron's comments. Turkey has a population out of control, becomes more Islamist by the day and has a leader cosying up to the monstrous Iranian government. Who in their right minds would want them inside the EU?
Personally, I support GB leaving the EU, but the idea of tens of millions of Turks having the right to live in our country should horrify any sane Briton. Ataturk's Turkey would have been a different matter, but he surely turns in his grave at what is happening to the state he created.
I support generally Cameron's domestic policy but on this one more power to the Franco/German axis.

 

[Dandyman]

I'm sure the Yanks want Turkey in the EU but there are a few problems for the rest of us. One of which is that Turkey continues it's illegal occupation and colonisation of northern Cyprus. Until it withdraws and allows the re-unification of the island, I don't feel it meets the criteria for entry into the EU. Turkey's economic, political and human rights record also needs to meet a variety of targets before entry can be a realistic option.

 

[SULLY COULDNT SHOOT]

I'm disgusted by Cameron's comments. Turkey has a population out of control, becomes more Islamist by the day and has a leader cosying up to the monstrous Iranian government. Who in their right minds would want them inside the EU?
Personally, I support GB leaving the EU, but the idea of tens of millions of Turks having the right to live in our country should horrify any sane Briton. Ataturk's Turkey would have been a different matter, but he surely turns in his grave at what is happening to the state he created.
I support generally Cameron's domestic policy but on this one more power to the Franco/German axis.

Do you live/ have lived in Turkey? I suggest you come here and look for yourself. The only reason the Islamic-looking AKP is in power is they are the only party to understand that politics is about voters... the other parties still think its about leaders and keeping the cultural elite happy. As soon as the other parties modernise thei views AKP will be out in a flash. Europe can help with that process. As for becoming more Islamist by the day, that is a joke. Alcohol consumption is up by more than 10% and Im pretty sure you havent looked at a turkish beach recently.

As for the cosying up to Iran, this is purely a political tool, emphasising to the rest of the world that Turkey is not unimportant and has a role to play. I suppose you didn't notice that three months ago that Turkey and Brazil (yes, Brazil, not an Islamist state) found a way out of the current impasse with Isreal which, while the UN was prepared to accept it, the US was not.

Turkey is not a bed of roses I agree and they have comitted some huge gaffes recently but if this is an islamist state Im in trouble.... I had a couple of beers last night and I was dancing at a night club!! They had lap dancers too!!!!

 

[SULLY COULDNT SHOOT]

I'm sure the Yanks want Turkey in the EU but there are a few problems for the rest of us. One of which is that Turkey continues it's illegal occupation and colonisation of northern Cyprus. Until it withdraws and allows the re-unification of the island, I don't feel it meets the criteria for entry into the EU. Turkey's economic, political and human rights record also needs to meet a variety of targets before entry can be a realistic option.

Now I am REALLY shocked. I always thought you were informed about things, Dandyman. Please check the history on this. First, what is the meaning of Enosis and what role did it play in the situation in Cyrpus in 1973-74. Secondly, was their a democratic government in Greece at the time and what was this 'governement's' policy? Thirdly, what was EOKA B and what was its policy? (Yes, there was a Turkish version too which was just as guilty). How many times did the Turkish government appeal for help for the Turks in Cyrpus and what was the UKs response? Don't get me wrong, Turkey is a guilty party here but you are painting it in black and white and it is VERY GREY indeed!

And, for me the cruncher - who voted for reunification in 2005 and who didn't? If that vote had been yes both sides the Turkish forces would have withdrawn as agreed. Who betrayed who then?

Turkey has been heavy-handed on Cyprus yes but it is not simply an illegal occupation..... both Turkey and Greece are fed up with their compatriots in Cyprus and there mindless bickering but their nationalist character does not allow them (both Greek and Turk) to back down on their commitment to each side. Hard to understand I know but the truth is, its a fact that if the tables had been reversed, Greece would have inveaded Cyprus and Greece would still be in the EU. You know that and I know that.

 

[SULLY COULDNT SHOOT]

Have you not noticed the massive rise in Turkish women wearing Islamic headscarves since Erdogan came to power? This is not a religious necessity, but a political declaration of their support of an Islamic state. As a previous poster said, Ataturk would be turning in his grave.

Political declaration of support for AKP.... yes.... though these are the same girls who go to nightclubs and drink. And we are talking of scarves here, not the burka or even a full head covering. These are also increasing though, though mainly with the elderly..... who (even I have to admit as I get older) is not such a surprise as we get closer to our appoitment with the Divine.

Ibrahim, what is the difference between Islamic and Islamist? Turkey already is an Islamic couintry but what makes it Islamist? Isn't one step the introdution of Sharia? And does anyone who's visisted Turkey on holiday really believe Turkey will have Sharia in the next ten years. If it does, I will be the first out of here.

Anyway Im going to back off now as Im beginning to sound like an apologist and Turkey, as I said before is no angel, it just needs to be treated like all the other naughty boys in the EU, like those ones involved in the atrocities in Afghanistan which we are now all hearing about.

 

[ROKERITE]

Now I am REALLY shocked. I always thought you were informed about things, Dandyman. Please check the history on this. First, what is the meaning of Enosis and what role did it play in the situation in Cyrpus in 1973-74. Secondly, was their a democratic government in Greece at the time and what was this 'governement's' policy? Thirdly, what was EOKA B and what was its policy? (Yes, there was a Turkish version too which was just as guilty). How many times did the Turkish government appeal for help for the Turks in Cyrpus and what was the UKs response? Don't get me wrong, Turkey is a guilty party here but you are painting it in black and white and it is VERY GREY indeed!

And, for me the cruncher - who voted for reunification in 2005 and who didn't? If that vote had been yes both sides the Turkish forces would have withdrawn as agreed. Who betrayed who then?

Turkey has been heavy-handed on Cyprus yes but it is not simply an illegal occupation..... both Turkey and Greece are fed up with their compatriots in Cyprus and there mindless bickering but their nationalist character does not allow them (both Greek and Turk) to back down on their commitment to each side. Hard to understand I know but the truth is, its a fact that if the tables had been reversed, Greece would have inveaded Cyprus and Greece would still be in the EU. You know that and I know that.

On this I do agree with you. I remember sympathising with the Turks when the invasion of Northern Cyprus took place. For years, as a child, the news programmes seemed to be constantly reporting on the dreadful Makarios and his bunch stirring up trouble. It appeared to me, from afar, that the Turkish government were simply defending the interests of their people by occupying part of the island.

 

[Gwylan]

I don't understand this "millions" or "tens of millions" of Turks coming here. We're not in great financial shape (Turkey's economic growth is five times that of ours) and we have no historic links to Turkey, nor do we have millions of Turks here (although it doesn't seem like that when you walk down Green Lane). Germany is far more prosperous and has historic links to Turkey, which is why there are 4m Turks there.

Why would "millions of Turks" want to leave a country that while not in good shape, is not down shit creek to travel to a country that is in a bad way? And why would they want to by-pass a country that is in better financial shape, that has traditionally welcomed Turkish workers and where there's an existing Turkish diaspora?

I can understand Germans getting edgy about Turkish EU membership but I can't understand the rationale for France and I certainly don't understand the paranoiac delusions that millions of Turks are going to invade Britain.

 

[manilaseagull]

I don't understand this "millions" or "tens of millions" of Turks coming here. We're not in great financial shape (Turkey's economic growth is five times that of ours) and we have no historic links to Turkey, nor do we have millions of Turks here (although it doesn't seem like that when you walk down Green Lane). Germany is far more prosperous and has historic links to Turkey, which is why there are 4m Turks there.

Why would "millions of Turks" want to leave a country that while not in good shape, is not down shit creek to travel to a country that is in a bad way? And why would they want to by-pass a country that is in better financial shape, that has traditionally welcomed Turkish workers and where there's an existing Turkish diaspora?

I can understand Germans getting edgy about Turkish EU membership but I can't understand the rationale for France and I certainly don't understand the paranoiac delusions that millions of Turks are going to invade Britain.

Poland?....why did they not stop at the convenient place Germany?

I think the Turks will get word about soft touch UK the same as the Poles and countless others.

 

[SULLY COULDNT SHOOT]

Poland?....why did they not stop at the convenient place Germany?

I think the Turks will get word about soft touch UK the same as the Poles and countless others.

Quyikc point... most Turks in UK are not Turks but Northern Cypriots....no question that entrance into EU will mean problems more for Germany and possibly newer powerhouses like Poland than the UK... French reaction I can only guess is either Amerneian /Kurdish influence or Catholic ? But would not want to assume.

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

A significant number of asylum seekers now given refugee status in the UK who claimed to be Iraqi Kurds are from the Turkish side of Kurdistan.

 

[Gwylan]

Poland?....why did they not stop at the convenient place Germany?

I think the Turks will get word about soft touch UK the same as the Poles and countless others.

Er... they do. There are more than twice as many Poles in Germany as there in the UK. And don't forget that the UK had no work restrictions on East Europeans as there were in Germany and Austria.

I'm amazed you missed the number of threads on here about the number of Poles in the German World Cup team. There was a lot of debate about it on here.

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

Having millions of Turks arriving in the UK looking for work would not be a good situation.

Unless we do what the Germans and French plan , ie , there will be no restriction in movement for EU nationals to work where they like providing they can adequately speak and write in the language of the country they want to work in. The Dutch already do this.

 

[ROKERITE]

I don't understand this "millions" or "tens of millions" of Turks coming here. We're not in great financial shape (Turkey's economic growth is five times that of ours) and we have no historic links to Turkey, nor do we have millions of Turks here (although it doesn't seem like that when you walk down Green Lane). Germany is far more prosperous and has historic links to Turkey, which is why there are 4m Turks there.

Why would "millions of Turks" want to leave a country that while not in good shape, is not down shit creek to travel to a country that is in a bad way? And why would they want to by-pass a country that is in better financial shape, that has traditionally welcomed Turkish workers and where there's an existing Turkish diaspora?

I can understand Germans getting edgy about Turkish EU membership but I can't understand the rationale for France and I certainly don't understand the paranoiac delusions that millions of Turks are going to invade Britain.

Things aren't as neat as that. If they were everyone who comes to the EU from Angola or Mozambique would settle in Portugal, and everybody from Algeria or the many other Francophone African nations would stop in France.
Germany may have "welcomed" Turks in the post-war boom but I don't think they'd receive a very warm welcome now.

 

[Gwylan]

At 14.5% unemployment in a country of 75m is enough to see a profound rate of migration of Turks looking for work here. Couple this with the extremely poor standard of workers rights, salaries and long hours in Turkey most of them would jump at the chance to live in Europe. Many Turks I have spoken are fully aware of Britains reputation for comparably good money for doing little, and being the benefits state that we are.

Also, speak to Germans about the Turkish communities there. 'Problematic' is not even the word.

Unemployment in Turkey is 12% and falling
Turkey's unemployment rate drops in April [ WORLD BULLETIN- TURKEY NEWS, WORLD NEWS ]

I don't doubt that many Turks would welcome a chance to live in Europe. I doubt that it's millions though and I doubt whether the UK would be top choice. They'd earn more money in Germany and work shorter hours too.

And what reputation for good money for doing little? Britain has a reputation for long hours, seemingly backed up by research
Britons work longest in Europe | This is Money

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

Germany allowed Turks to come and do all the shitty jobs that their nationals didn't want to do , similar to us bringing in workers from the West Indies.

 

[manilaseagull]

I'm amazed you missed the number of threads on here about the number of Poles in the German World Cup team. There was a lot of debate about it on here.

why are you amazed? I know how many Poles were in the Germany team, but what has that got to do with Turkey joining the EU?

Its called thread creep and that is not needed. I thank you for your contribution.

 

[Gwylan]

How about a 16 hour day, 7 day week for less than a pound an hour... Such is the life of any unskilled worker in Turkey. This is why Turks who come to England are such grafters.

I don't doubt that if Turkey joined the EU, there would be Turks coming to the UK. I don't think there'll be millions though and I do think that more would go to Germany

why are you amazed? I know how many Poles were in the Germany team, but what has that got to do with Turkey joining the EU?

I've no idea, you were the one who brought up Poles in Germany, not me. You made the post at 9.39 and just 45 minutes later, you'd forgotten making it - now, that's some short-term memory loss.