[News] Dianne Abbot- Marvellous

[rippleman]

Amazing women. Shame that people just swallow what the press and media portray for them. Wonder how many people will actually bother to read you're link?

I have. And interesting that the examples of the abuse are not too dissimilar to the that posted by LVGull just above yours. You can bet they won't have read it. Their ignorance is unbounded.

 

[highflyer]

She was talented and she was bright. I don't know what happened to her, but she no longer comes across as either. She achieved a great deal from humble beginnings.

I like to treat people equally, regardless of their ethnicity or gender. That means I judge her, as I judge other politicians, on what she says and does. What I hear her say makes me have no respect for her abilities as a politician. I'm sorry, but I refuse to base my opinion on her ethnicity.

Which is, of course, fair enough and quite correct.

For me, and the reason i engaged on this thread (despite my better instincts), is that I want people to judge her as they would others. And I think this means thinking about a few things carefully before making that judgement:

1. To look beyond the memes and tropes (is that the right phrase - I am not really social media savvy?) that are so endlessly circiulated (including on here) and at least find out about why she is still so highly regarded among many of her peers and constituents. For instance this speech on civil liberties made a few years ago: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2008/jun/12/terrorism.civilliberties

2. To consider why those clips of her poor performances in interviews are the dominant impression most people get of her (whilst, for example, we almost never hear the clip of Johnson's car crash interview with Eddie Mair following the queens speech a couple of years ago - https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...ash-unable-answer-questions-bbc-a7801936.html - as good a demonstration of political incompetence as you will ever hear). And to ask what might motivate those that have made it their life's work to keep the 'Diane Abbot is thick' story on an endless loop - and is it OK to accept that as the truth without asking yourself a couple of questions at least?

3. To at least consider that a lifetime of vitriol (much of it being very much linked to her ethnicity) directed at her might have some bearing on recent declining performances? And if that the leads you to the conclusion 'then she should get out of frontline politics' to consider the implications of that.

As long as this context is taken into account then of course - judge away.

For what it is worth, personally - and with all the above taken into account, I think she is still a far better politician than most people give her credit for, but am still not convinced she's front bench material.

 

[Hugo Rune]

It's Hackney I believe so I would imagine overwhelmingly BAME.

So BAME voters automatically vote for BAME MPs?

I don’t think they’re that simple.

 

[Wozza]

So BAME voters automatically vote for BAME MPs? I don’t think they’re that simple.

Yep, wrong to assume BAME constituents would only vote for a BAME candidate.

Wrong to assume Diane Abbott's constituents are “overwhelmingly BAME”.

And wrong to assume she was the only BAME candidate at the last general election.

Bullshit 0 Reality 3

 

[Triggaaar]

Lovely stuff - If you've got a keen interest in her for whatever reason (and she does appear to be the most talked about member of the shadow cabinet) go for it.

I don't have a keen interest in her. I have, however, seen her on TV more than the rest of the shadow cabinet (put together), as she was on 'This Week' with Andrew Neil and Michael Portillo.

In fact I can't even remember the last time I saw her on TV or read about her, full stop. For whatever reason, she just doesn't impact on my life. Anyway, as a learned Diane Abbot observer how did she do yesterday?

She doesn't impact on your life now, but if Labour won a General Election she could. Just like that buffoon Boris didn't used to impact on our lives, but he does now.

There will of course be racist people who either judge her by her colour, and judge other black people based on Abbott. But that shouldn't mean that others can't comment on her purely as a politician.

You clearly think she's being singled out for her ethnicity, but someone like Natalie Bennett would get similar treatment (for similar reasons), at least from me, were she making the headline at PMQs.

(I do get the impression some very odd people actually lie awake at night thinking about her - The sort of person who talks about her at 0146am. Do you know anyone like that?)

So you think I went to bed and lay their awake thinking of Abbott. That's chilling. No, I caught up with the latest two episodes of the Blacklist and before bed, before switching off the PC, I checked NSC and responded to your post.

 

[Beach Seagull]

So BAME voters automatically vote for BAME MPs?

I don’t think they’re that simple.

I couldn't give a definative answer but I would imagine many would. I would guess if was a white candidate in her constituency they wouldn't win as many votes.

 

[Triggaaar]

Which is, of course, fair enough and quite correct.

Well at least we're in some agreement.

For me, and the reason i engaged on this thread (despite my better instincts), is that I want people to judge her as they would others. And I think this means thinking about a few things carefully before making that judgement:

1. To look beyond the memes and tropes (is that the right phrase - I am not really social media savvy?) that are so endlessly circiulated (including on here) and at least find out about why she is still so highly regarded among many of her peers and constituents.

But I don't do that for other politicians I criticise. After seeing interviews of Natalie Bennet I got the feeling that she didn't have a clue about her own policies and so I judged her as a politician. Now the truth is, she's probably done some impressive things in her life, worthy of praise, rather than disdain, but I'm not going to bother looking into it, I just don't care that much. I wouldn't for any of the politicians I criticise. So why should I do it for Abbott? Why should I treat her differently than the rest?

So it feels that you don't want me to judge her as I would others, you want me to treat her differently.

2. To consider why those clips of her poor performances in interviews are the dominant impression most people get of her

Possibly because all of her interviews are a car crash? Of course the media are biased in the reporting on our different parties. Presumably you're sure that Abbott gets it worse because of her ethnicity, which is of course disgusting. I certainly wouldn't subscribe to any news organisation that I felt did that. Picking up on your link to Boris, I think Boris is a terrible self serving politician, completely unfit to be our Prime Minister, and I would even consider voting for Corbyn to get rid of him. I think that because of the things he's said in interviews, not because of what the media are saying. He is of course attacked because of his privileged background. I have no interest in that (in relation to him as a leader, rather than what it means for the country as a whole to keep selecting leaders from the wealthy elite), I just care about what he says and does, and I don't like what I see.

And to ask what might motivate those that have made it their life's work to keep the 'Diane Abbot is thick' story on an endless loop - and is it OK to accept that as the truth without asking yourself a couple of questions at least?

I don't accept that story based on what the media keep rehashing, I base my opinion on the many times I've seen her on TV the first time round.

Why is it that just before the election, Labour dropped her from the Shadow Cabinet? They said she was ill, so she was dropped indefinitely, and then low and behold, as soon as the election was over, she was back? Is it not because she's unfit for office, and the public could see that?

3. To at least consider that a lifetime of vitriol (much of it being very much linked to her ethnicity) directed at her might have some bearing on recent declining performances? And if that the leads you to the conclusion 'then she should get out of frontline politics' to consider the implications of that.

If her declining performances are due to the abuse she has had to face over the years (and I don't know if there's any evidence that that's the case), then that would of course be very sad. But however sad it is, it would be ridiculous to have her as Home Secretary if it was felt she wasn't up to the job, just because it was felt that she'd been driven mad by racists. If she left politics, it's the sort of thing she could campaign against, highlighting what happened to her.

 

[Gwylan]

I couldn't give a definative answer but I would imagine many would. I would guess if was a white candidate in her constituency they wouldn't win as many votes.

Just to repeat: that's completely nonsensical - there are twice as many white people as BAME ones

According to Hackney council, it's about 60% white, 23% black and 11% Asian with the remainder mixed

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Well at least we're in some agreement.

But I don't do that for other politicians I criticise. After seeing interviews of Natalie Bennet I got the feeling that she didn't have a clue about her own policies and so I judged her as a politician. Now the truth is, she's probably done some impressive things in her life, worthy of praise, rather than disdain, but I'm not going to bother looking into it, I just don't care that much. I wouldn't for any of the politicians I criticise. So why should I do it for Abbott? Why should I treat her differently than the rest?

So it feels that you don't want me to judge her as I would others, you want me to treat her differently.

Possibly because all of her interviews are a car crash? Of course the media are biased in the reporting on our different parties. Presumably you're sure that Abbott gets it worse because of her ethnicity, which is of course disgusting. I certainly wouldn't subscribe to any news organisation that I felt did that. Picking up on your link to Boris, I think Boris is a terrible self serving politician, completely unfit to be our Prime Minister, and I would even consider voting for Corbyn to get rid of him. I think that because of the things he's said in interviews, not because of what the media are saying. He is of course attacked because of his privileged background. I have no interest in that (in relation to him as a leader, rather than what it means for the country as a whole to keep selecting leaders from the wealthy elite), I just care about what he says and does, and I don't like what I see.

I don't accept that story based on what the media keep rehashing, I base my opinion on the many times I've seen her on TV the first time round.

Why is it that just before the election, Labour dropped her from the Shadow Cabinet? They said she was ill, so she was dropped indefinitely, and then low and behold, as soon as the election was over, she was back? Is it not because she's unfit for office, and the public could see that?

If her declining performances are due to the abuse she has had to face over the years (and I don't know if there's any evidence that that's the case), then that would of course be very sad. But however sad it is, it would be ridiculous to have her as Home Secretary if it was felt she wasn't up to the job, just because it was felt that she'd been driven mad by racists. If she left politics, it's the sort of thing she could campaign against, highlighting what happened to her.

Diane Abbot is diabetic so can have incidents of ill health which has to be managed.

 

[Beach Seagull]

Just to repeat: that's completely nonsensical - there are twice as many white people as BAME ones

Well obviously if thats what the stats state then so be it but when I've been there and other nearby areas in East London it looks very BAME. Anyway regardless of what ever arguements there are she is a low calibre person whose status within Politics owes everything to her skin colour. After the Murnaghan interview they withdrew her from the campaign stating she was 'ill' (yeah right). She's a racist 'whites like to divide and rule' and lawbreaker drinking alcohol on the London underground as she doesn't like being confronted either by the public (was again on the Underground its on Youtube).

 

[Triggaaar]

Diane Abbot is diabetic so can have incidents of ill health which has to be managed.

By managed, do you mean temporarily removed from the cabinet? What's wrong with her medication?

 

[highflyer]

Why should I treat her differently than the rest?

Because she is treated differently than the rest?

To some extent this is assumption as I have no idea what she has actually been through, in every detail, from starting out trying to become the first black female MP in the UK in the 80's, through to the present. But it's not all that hard to guess.

Objectively however it is simple fact that she received almost half of all the abusive tweets sent to female MPs in the run-up to the general election.

 

[Stat Brother]

Just to repeat: that's completely nonsensical - there are twice as many white people as BAME ones

I think you're up against NSC's equivalent of Haley Joel Osment in a less dramatic sequel to The Sixth Sense:-

"I see black people".

 

[Triggaaar]

Because she is treated differently than the rest?

To some extent this is assumption as I have no idea what she has actually been through, in every detail, from starting out trying to become the first black female MP in the UK in the 80's, through to the present. But it's not all that hard to guess.

Objectively however it is simple fact that she received almost half of all the abusive tweets sent to female MPs in the run-up to the general election.

No doubt some other politicians will have had trials through their lives, as some of us here will have. Regardless of what lives we've all had, we should be able to discuss the specific points at hand. For a politician, that means asking tough questions about their policies, and judging them on their answers. I judge them all. I cannot understand the concept that I'm supposed to cut her more slack when she answers questions, because she's had a tough time.

Of course she shouldn't be subjected to a lot of the abuse she gets, that goes without saying. But I don't feel that I should ignore what I believe are her failings as a politician, because of the behaviour of others.

 

[Klaas]

I think that she is one most deplorable people in public eye who constantly plays the 'colour card' when the going gets tough.

Got any examples of that BG?

 

[Stat Brother]

Got any examples of that BG?

He's gone very quiet on that front.

 

[Uncle C]

Cant stand the woman.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

By managed, do you mean temporarily removed from the cabinet? What's wrong with her medication?

Diabetes changes constantly. It isn't a case of your medication is fixed so you are.

 

[ManOfSussex]

I don't have a keen interest in her. I have, however, seen her on TV more than the rest of the shadow cabinet (put together), as she was on 'This Week' with Andrew Neil and Michael Portillo.

She doesn't impact on your life now, but if Labour won a General Election she could. Just like that buffoon Boris didn't used to impact on our lives, but he does now.

There will of course be racist people who either judge her by her colour, and judge other black people based on Abbott. But that shouldn't mean that others can't comment on her purely as a politician.

You clearly think she's being singled out for her ethnicity, but someone like Natalie Bennett would get similar treatment (for similar reasons), at least from me, were she making the headline at PMQs.

So you think I went to bed and lay their awake thinking of Abbott. That's chilling. No, I caught up with the latest two episodes of the Blacklist and before bed, before switching off the PC, I checked NSC and responded to your post.

Okay. It's just if there's a thread entitled 'Baseball' for example and someone makes the most posts on that thread, I'd assume they'd have a keen interest in the sport of Baseball, one-way-or-the-other, particularly if something supposedly noteworthy had happened in Baseball that day. I'd also have assumed they'd perhaps seen whatever had happened on TV that day, if they were commentating on it so much. It's just as you're the only poster to make double figures on this thread - one enititled 'Dianne Abbot- Marvellous' - (including one at 0146am about her to someone else, not me, that did made me wonder if you're one of those people literally obsessed with Diane Abbott) I drew the conclusion you must have a very keen interest in the subject matter. (Incidentally, having had a Home Secretary as an MP and spoken to her in person, the prospect of Diane Abbott assuming that role doesn't worry me at all.)

 

[Wozza]

Well obviously if thats what the stats state then so be it but when I've been there and other nearby areas in East London it looks very BAME.

We get it. You've had enough of facts.