[Offers] Depopulation crisis

[Doonhamer7]

Just been linking a few items together after a recent trip to Korea where I had a conversation on their depopulation issues with their fertility rate dropping to <1 for divert woman (sustainability rate is 2.1). Followed up by a number of YouTube videos and articles - is this now a big crisis to life and society as we know it. The current uk rate is now down to 1.44. Even India has now dropped to <2.1. the Repercussions are huge with not enough people going into the workforce to replace the existing workforce and as we age then pensions aren’t sustainable. For example in Italy there are currently 1million 50yr olds, but there was only 440,000 babies born, so in 20 years time there will be huge shortfall with most of the 1million still being alive and pensioners with less than 1/2 paying for their pensions. As the financial position gets worse we’ll probably be seeing even less children. So my thought is do we now need policies to encourage the younger generations to starting to have more kids, such as tax breaks, increased child allowance, subsidised childcare?

 

[BevBHA]

Nursery for my son (almost 3 years old) is £950 a month for 3 full days!

Children are expensive, me and the mrs are in our mid twenties with combined income of £80k+ and we can’t put enough money away to get out of the rent game and buy a place. But if we’d waited to have a family until we’d brought a home we would have been much older parents than we wanted to be.

Being a young person (I’m classing that as 18-30) in this generation and especially in this country is extremely hard.

 

[Doonhamer7]

So your in the real position of the people we as society really needs to help

 

[FatSuperman]

Nursery for my son (almost 3 years old) is £950 a month for 3 full days!

Children are expensive, me and the mrs are in our mid twenties with combined income of £80k+ and we can’t put enough money away to get out of the rent game and buy a place. But if we’d waited to have a family until we’d brought a home we would have been much older parents than we wanted to be.

Being a young person (I’m classing that as 18-30) in this generation and especially in this country is extremely hard.

Young people are f***ed.

Boomers vs GenZ, UK:
House price 31 times higher
Rent 16 times higher
Petrol 18 times higher
University was free, now £32k

Salaries… 6 times higher

 

[Mustafa II]

This is late-stage capitalism.

People can't afford to have kids.

We would love kids if they were affordable, we earn a decent wage, but still can't afford them, so have completely ruled them out and have made peace with that.

 

[BevBHA]

Young people are f***ed.

Boomers vs GenZ, UK:
House price 31 times higher
Rent 16 times higher
Petrol 18 times higher
University was free, now £32k

Salaries… 6 times higher

Absolutely. I’d love to have more kids. Maybe we will end up having 1 more in a few years. I’d have 3 or 4 if I could it’s the best thing ever. But when you couldn’t guarantee them the life you’d want to you’re forced to question it

 

[US Seagull]

The aging population is a problem. But less of a problem that overpopulation. I, for one, think the human population of Earth shrinking a bit is generally a good thing. The solution for Western democracies is actually pretty easy. It's immigration.

A lot of people who complain about it (like Musk) are really only complaining that particular demographic groups (usually whites) aren't reproducing enough.

 

[Sirnormangall]

I think it’s a feature of most western countries plus (in addition to those you mention), Russia and China. Individual countries will no doubt introduce policies to support and encourage population growth (including managed immigration) - though arguably the world needs fewer people rather than more.

 

[Ali_rrr]

Nursery for my son (almost 3 years old) is £950 a month for 3 full days!

Children are expensive, me and the mrs are in our mid twenties with combined income of £80k+ and we can’t put enough money away to get out of the rent game and buy a place. But if we’d waited to have a family until we’d brought a home we would have been much older parents than we wanted to be.

Being a young person (I’m classing that as 18-30) in this generation and especially in this country is extremely hard.

I think it's everywhere in fairness. Add that to the housing crisis too which means even if I could afford to have a child I'd have nowhere to house it.

 

[Doonhamer7]

This is a problem that no politician is even talking about and I don’t know why as its impact is huge

 

[studio150]

No need to worry AI and Robots will be doing all the work, and generating income for all.

 

[US Seagull]

I watched this very good video a while back on the subject:

 

[The Optimist]

Nursery for my son (almost 3 years old) is £950 a month for 3 full days!

Children are expensive, me and the mrs are in our mid twenties with combined income of £80k+ and we can’t put enough money away to get out of the rent game and buy a place. But if we’d waited to have a family until we’d brought a home we would have been much older parents than we wanted to be.

Being a young person (I’m classing that as 18-30) in this generation and especially in this country is extremely hard.

In London and paying £985 a month for 2 days a week for 2.5 year old.

Luckily the older one is now at school. At one point we had the pair of them in nursery on 3 days a week which was something like £2300 a month. It’s crazy money.

As a society we have moved away from the old model of a working father and a housewife (which for many reasons is a good thing) without finding a new method that sufficiently supports parents with pre-school children. Are there any comparable countries with better childcare arrangements? If so, what’s their birth rate?

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I said in 2017, we needed the birth rate to remain steady.

Kate pregnant again

Most of that paid for by southern rail commuters. And EDF customers.

www.northstandchat.com

 

[BevBHA]

In London and paying £985 a month for 2 days a week for 2.5 year old.

Luckily the older one is now at school. At one point we had the pair of them in nursery on 3 days a week which was something like £2300 a month. It’s crazy money.

As a society we have moved away from the old model of a working father and a housewife (which for many reasons is a good thing) without finding a new method that sufficiently supports parents with pre-school children. Are there any comparable countries with better childcare arrangements? If so, what’s their birth rate?

Agree re working father and stay at home wife, definitely a positive as a society that we have moved away from this misogyny.

But in my situation and I’m sure many others, the nursery fees so that she can go to work (for her own mental health and sanity and why shouldn’t she be able to?) are over half what she brings into the household!

 

[The Optimist]

Agree re working father and stay at home wife, definitely a positive as a society that we have moved away from this misogyny.

But in my situation and I’m sure many others, the nursery fees so that she can go to work (for her own mental health and sanity and why shouldn’t she be able to?) are over half what she brings into the household!

And I’m guessing from your earlier comment on combined income that she’s on quite good pay. For a lot of people nursery fees eat up a much larger chunk of income and the benefit of working is to keep a career going for once the children are at school.

It all adds up to make those early years very expensive and not encouraging people to have child number 2 or 3.

P.s. why are the nursery fees so that she can go to work and not so that you can go to work?

 

[herecomesaregular]

We're like locusts on this planet and some feel the answer is everyone should be having more children. Holy moly.

 

[BevBHA]

And I’m guessing from your earlier comment on combined income that she’s on quite good pay. For a lot of people nursery fees eat up a much larger chunk of income and the benefit of working is to keep a career going for once the children are at school.

It all adds up to make those early years very expensive and not encouraging people to have child number 2 or 3.

P.s. why are the nursery fees so that she can go to work and not so that you can go to work?

Yes agree with that, however we would have definitely had another child soon after the first if we could have afforded it. We will have to wait until child 1 goes to school because of the very reason you stated you were in, we couldn’t do 2x nursery fees. I wonder how many people get to that stage and then don’t want the 5/6 year age gap so just end up settling for one child?

Nursery is obviously so we can both go to work. However, factually I earn more than her so if one of us was not to work it would have to be her, as we simply could not live off of her salary with the extortionate rent prices, even if we didn’t have to pay nursery fees

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Just been linking a few items together after a recent trip to Korea where I had a conversation on their depopulation issues with their fertility rate dropping to <1 for divert woman (sustainability rate is 2.1). Followed up by a number of YouTube videos and articles - is this now a big crisis to life and society as we know it. The current uk rate is now down to 1.44. Even India has now dropped to <2.1. the Repercussions are huge with not enough people going into the workforce to replace the existing workforce and as we age then pensions aren’t sustainable. For example in Italy there are currently 1million 50yr olds, but there was only 440,000 babies born, so in 20 years time there will be huge shortfall with most of the 1million still being alive and pensioners with less than 1/2 paying for their pensions. As the financial position gets worse we’ll probably be seeing even less children. So my thought is do we now need policies to encourage the younger generations to starting to have more kids, such as tax breaks, increased child allowance, subsidised childcare?

Workplace pensions deals with oldster income to a large extent.
But healthcare provision is an issue...
And yet, with respect to the latter, better health and longevity means that COPD and cancer are simply delayed to +70, rather than the +50s.
And let's not forget, state pensions kick in later now. Take note WASPIs. Oops!
Dementia is the bigger problem - people alive and otherwise well, but dependent for 10+ years.

 

[portslade seagull]

Not really sure depopulation is really an issue. When you go back to the 30s most family's like my mum's were very big ( she had 8 siblings ) and they lived in a 3 bed council house in whitehawk. I also have a friend of similar age who had 10 siblings who lived in Moulescoomb in a 3 bed house. Families on the whole have reduced in size over time due to costs to the present average. Not sure the planet can deal with another population explosion due to lack of natural resources.