Debt in the Premier League - Telegraph sports section (merged)

[Triggaaar]

So both clubs making a healthy profit. What's the problem then?

Of course not all clubs are doing so well, and they're encouraged to gamble by the fact that they always seem to get bailed out in the end.

 

[Weststander]

Manchester United
30/06/2010: Profit after Tax £13.5m, but then they paid out a £100m in dividends (what club does that?!) to give them a loss to the Balance Sheet of £86.5m.
30/06/2011: Profit after Tax £9.5m. No dividends paid out.

Arsenal
30/06/2010: Profit after Tax £92m, and they also paid out a dividend, of £24.87m, leaving them with Retained Profits of £67m. Wow.
30/06/2011: Profit after Tax £13m, no dividend paid out.

That WOW is meaningless.

Man U, Man C, Chelski, Barca & Real keep picking up the silverware, some with wealthy benefactors or massive fan bases.

Arsenal used to compete at the very top say 1989 to 2005, but now get an erection with a CL place. Wenger & the Board have tricked the fans that a good set of accounts & CL football is success, when they used to compete for prizes.

 

[Northstandite]

How many times are you going to refer to Chelsea across these boards in a single day!?

You spotted it too.
Must be having time out from (Armchair) Chelsea sites, to drop in on NSC.

 

[DT Withdean]

Anyone not clear on why Gus talks about wages needs to have a look at the figures and League positions.

This.

Other than the odd freak season (Newcastle this year), football economists recently proved the strong correlation between annual payroll cost (not transfers, as some key players come through the ranks or are obtained on frees) & final league position.

Gus was just being open & factual, and there has never been a shred of evidence that TB disagreed with that assessment.

 

[Freddie Goodwin.]

Clubs go on so much about the pot of gold that is the Prem, and about the parachute payments should they fail but just look at how many ex-prem teams have tumbled down the leagues and into financial crisis.

I'd rather keep our club sustainable and built so that a poor season could not bring the club down.

 

[Deleted member 18477]

That WOW is meaningless.

Man U, Man C, Chelski, Barca & Real keep picking up the silverware, some with wealthy benefactors or massive fan bases.

Arsenal used to compete at the very top say 1989 to 2005, but now get an erection with a CL place. Wenger & the Board have tricked the fans that a good set of accounts & CL football is success, when they used to compete for prizes.

Ahh yes but arsenal have a 300 million pound stadium to pay off. In these current times regardless of what silverware they have not won, Wenger has done the right thing for the club in the long run IMO!

 

[Aadam]

Clubs go on so much about the pot of gold that is the Prem, and about the parachute payments should they fail but just look at how many ex-prem teams have tumbled down the leagues and into financial crisis.

I'd rather keep our club sustainable and built so that a poor season could not bring the club down.

But this only happens when clubs do it wrong. Take Blackpool as an example of a club doing it the right way.

 

[itszamora]

That WOW is meaningless.

Man U, Man C, Chelski, Barca & Real keep picking up the silverware, some with wealthy benefactors or massive fan bases.

Arsenal used to compete at the very top say 1989 to 2005, but now get an erection with a CL place. Wenger & the Board have tricked the fans that a good set of accounts & CL football is success, when they used to compete for prizes.

As opposed to what? Spending money they don't have?

 

[piersa]

i like being in the championship.

i quite agree, the premier league has no appeal whatsoever!

 

[gazingdown]

Ahh yes but arsenal have a 300 million pound stadium to pay off. In these current times regardless of what silverware they have not won, Wenger has done the right thing for the club in the long run IMO!

Quite.

I think Arsenal will, in 4/5 years be a very strong outfit as they're being sensible with money now. Once stadium paid off, that's frees up money for players. Success will come. It's good to see some clubs take a more long term view.

For every club that spends loads and becomes successful, there are ones that spend loads but get into trouble as we see.

As for the money/wages/success ratio, I think successful teams spend lots on players rather than spending lots on players brings success. Many are looking at the statistics in the wrong "direction". You still have to have all the other factors in place (good training, stadium, right manager/managment team, youth development etc.).

 

[gazingdown]

i quite agree, the premier league has no appeal whatsoever!

What? You wouldn't want, even if for one season only, to go the Amex to see the Albion host (and beat ManU, Liverpool, Everton, Arsenal, City, Newcastle, Spurs etc.). Proper full house every week, on TV loads, the money/success, being entertained by higher quality players etc.

The Championship may end up being our "natural" level but it'd be great to be in the PL from time to time (say, like Blackpool are doing). Not to mention the improved long term stability of the club having the extra revenue for the odd season. Main thing is to, irrespective of going up, be sensible with money. I wouldn't want the club to sacrifice long term stability for anything, it's taken us a long time to get where we are.

 

[Gritt23]

That WOW is meaningless.

Man U, Man C, Chelski, Barca & Real keep picking up the silverware, some with wealthy benefactors or massive fan bases.

Arsenal used to compete at the very top say 1989 to 2005, but now get an erection with a CL place. Wenger & the Board have tricked the fans that a good set of accounts & CL football is success, when they used to compete for prizes.

Not "meaningless" at all. That is a phenomenal financial result, and shows what can be achieved, and in truth how clubs should be running their businesses. In any other industry, companies would be seeing these golden years, and would be wisely making hay while the sun shines, because more difficult days will inevitably lie ahead.

I find Arsenal a very divisive model, even within my own mind, as they represent 2 examples of things I love and loathe.

Love: a club competing for honours, that actually does it within their means, and running their club sensibly.
Loathe: acceptance that falling just short is perfectly acceptable.

Either way though, look at the financial results of the Premiership clubs and a £67m PROFIT from one of them, jumps from the page, and just has to bring a "wow" doesn't it?

 

[Seagull73]

AND? So have Chelsea, so what is your point?

29 October 1988 FL Division 2: Chelsea 2-0 Brighton and Hove Albion Attendance: 15,406

So no JCL's here then?

 

[piersa]

Football economics is based on Gordon Brown economics. How people cannot see that the bubble will burst for so many clubs is beyond me. There are already clubs fallling foul of their borrowing and going out of business. It is a ticking time bomb.

 

[piersa]

What? You wouldn't want, even if for one season only, to go the Amex to see the Albion host (and beat ManU, Liverpool, Everton, Arsenal, City, Newcastle, Spurs etc.). Proper full house every week, on TV loads, the money/success, being entertained by higher quality players etc.

The Championship may end up being our "natural" level but it'd be great to be in the PL from time to time (say, like Blackpool are doing). Not to mention the improved long term stability of the club having the extra revenue for the odd season. Main thing is to, irrespective of going up, be sensible with money. I wouldn't want the club to sacrifice long term stability for anything, it's taken us a long time to get where we are.

I was being dry. What you say is right. We need to get there in our own good time. We will get 30,000 every week once in prem which will represent around £1million per match. That is healthy as longed as it is not pissed up the wall with debt interest payments.