Death Sentance

[Finchley Seagull]

How has this been shown ? All that has ben highlighted are the people who weren't deterred, how do you measure the figure for people who were deterred ? people have tried comparing figures of death penalty/non death penalty states but the non death penalty states had different socio-economic circumstances which led to a lower overall crime rate. For the record i'm pro death penalty in theory , but in practice there have been too many miscarriages of justice for it to work in practice.

I think it is fair to say that when countries like the USA have a very high murder rate and use the death penalty that it is not a deterrent, although as you say you cannot measure how many people have actually been deterred.

Personally, I think that the death penalty is morally wrong so even if you could guarantee someone's guilt, I wouldn't want it. Certainly with the numerous miscarriages of justice I think it is hard to put an argument in favour of it.

 

[User removed 4]

I think it is fair to say that when countries like the USA have a very high murder rate and use the death penalty that it is not a deterrent, although as you say you cannot measure how many people have actually been deterred.

you cannot argue that it's not a deterrent if there is no real way of quantifying the people who were deterred.

 

[strings]

I'm against the death penalty, but haven't voted. As has been said before, murderers don't neccessarily go free. An incredibly biased poll.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

The existence of the death penalty is simply a proclamation that, in certain circumstances, killing a human being can be justified.

And that is the case that murderers make as well - at least inside their own heads.

 

[simmo]

I think it is fair to say that when countries like the USA have a very high murder rate and use the death penalty that it is not a deterrent, although as you say you cannot measure how many people have actually been deterred.

Personally, I think that the death penalty is morally wrong so even if you could guarantee someone's guilt, I wouldn't want it. Certainly with the numerous miscarriages of justice I think it is hard to put an argument in favour of it.

The USA has a much higher murder rate than the UK (and always will regardless of whether they/do don't have the death penalty) because guns are so much more prevelant in society "due to their constitutional right to bear arms". To compare the UK and the USA is utterly wrong. It would be better to compare different states in the USA before and after the death penalty was repealled and then brought back again in the mid 70's.

 

[simmo]

Ok, show me one country where the death penalty either has worked, ie cut down crime, or reduced the crime rate.

For someone so young, I would have thought you would have read your history books.

South Africa is an example of a country whom had the death penalty and then it was repealled (around the early 90's).

Look at it now

 

[Dave the OAP]

South Africa is an example of a country whom had the death penalty and then it was repealled (around the early 90's).

Look at it now

Yes and when it had a death penalty, that was an integral part of the subordination of the vast majority of the population by a tiny white minority called Apartheit. From personal experience of the country living there in the 60's, it was no safer then believe me.

 

[Simster]

South Africa is an example of a country whom had the death penalty and then it was repealled (around the early 90's).

Look at it now

But South Africa is a third world country for well over half of it's population.

The murder rate is actually falling there, although it does still have 18,000 murders a year, compared to 900 here!

 

[sam86]

When my only child was murdered three years ago it could have changed my views on capital punishment. i usually avoid these threads, or any that are a bit too close to home. but i just would like to say that i would still vote against it.

That's left me quite speechless.

Life should mean life....hard labour, no human rights and no chance of getting out.

i can go along with the life meaning life. my daughters murderer recieved minimum of 18 years, he will be 45 when released.

 

[simmo]

Yes and when it had a death penalty, that was an integral part of the subordination of the vast majority of the population by a tiny white minority called Apartheit. From personal experience of the country living there in the 60's, it was no safer then believe me.

Utterly pathetic and predicatable response. Don't refute the question about the repeal of the death penalty but go on about apartheid and try and change the subject.

Absolutely ludicrous too. Ask any South African living here (and there) and they will tell you it is much, much, much, more dangerous now than it was before the death penalty was repealled.

 

[¤DãŃn¥ §êãGüLL¤]

No one should have the right to play God.

If we start executing people, that makes us as bad as the criminals.

Then again, I've never had someone close to me murdered (God forbid) so I can understand the feeling.

 

[Simster]

Utterly pathetic and predicatable response. Don't refute the question about the repeal of the death penalty but go on about apartheid and try and change the subject.

Absolutely ludicrous too. Ask any South African living here (and there) and they will tell you it is much, much, much, more dangerous now than it was before the death penalty was repealled.

How many black South Africans have you asked then?

I only say this because under apartheid, blacks weren't even allowed out at night, and were never allowed in white areas unless they had a pass. And seeing as poverty and deprivation were exclusively black phenominom back then, it stands to reason that whites were never exposed to it.

My suspicion is that if you live a hazy life of drugs, squalor and deprivation, I very much doubt that the death penalty is ever at the forefront of your mind. You just get by, day to day.

 

[simmo]

But South Africa is a third world country for well over half of it's population.

The murder rate is actually falling there, although it does still have 18,000 murders a year, compared to 900 here!

When I went to Johannasberg, in 2000 a saffer next to me on the plane said to me welcome to the murder capital of the world. It didn't always used to be like that......well not until the death penalty was overturned.

 

[bhaexpress]

How has this been shown ? All that has ben highlighted are the people who weren't deterred, how do you measure the figure for people who were deterred ? people have tried comparing figures of death penalty/non death penalty states but the non death penalty states had different socio-economic circumstances which led to a lower overall crime rate. For the record i'm pro death penalty in theory , but in practice there have been too many miscarriages of justice for it to work in practice.

The Americans execute more than any other western nation and yet it still have a very high murder rate. It did not increase when the death penalty was banned and nothing has changed since it started again. The point being is that a lot of murders are not planned. However I am for the death penalty for premeditated murder as there's no doubt about intenet then.

 

[Questions]

My suspicion is that if you live a hazy life of drugs, squalor and deprivation, I very much doubt that the death penalty is ever at the forefront of your mind. You just get by, day to day.

Well thats Whitehawk for you.

 

[Dave the OAP]

Utterly pathetic and predicatable response. Don't refute the question about the repeal of the death penalty but go on about apartheid and try and change the subject.

Absolutely ludicrous too. Ask any South African living here (and there) and they will tell you it is much, much, much, more dangerous now than it was before the death penalty was repealled.

why pathetic and predictable? You brought up South Africa as an example, not me.

You were there were you?

The problem with state sponsored executions is the Charles Dimenes ( sp?) situation where by a totally innocent man went to his death by someone getting it wrong. In the same way as the Birmingham 6, Guilford 4. If we would have had the death penalty they would all have been executed....if that is how you wish to see society run, then good luck to you

 

[bhaexpress]

When I went to Johannasberg, in 2000 a saffer next to me on the plane said to me welcome to the murder capital of the world. It didn't always used to be like that......well not until the death penalty was overturned.

I think what you meant to say was 'since the kaffers took over', something I have heard several times from exiled white South Africans.

 

[simmo]

How many black South Africans have you asked then?

I only say this because under apartheid, blacks weren't even allowed out at night, and were never allowed in white areas unless they had a pass. And seeing as poverty and deprivation were exclusively black phenominom back then, it stands to reason that whites were never exposed to it.

My suspicion is that if you live a hazy life of drugs, squalor and deprivation, I very much doubt that the death penalty is ever at the forefront of your mind. You just get by, day to day.

It is not a question of apartheid this thread, it is about the death penalty. If you had asked me a question about apartheid my answer would have been different.

This is a fact.

Before the death penalty was repealled South Afirca had a low murder rate (probably comparable to the UK).

Now it has one of the, if not the highest.

 

[simmo]

why pathetic and predictable? You brought up South Africa as an example, not me.

You were there were you?

The problem with state sponsored executions is the Charles Dimenes ( sp?) situation where by a totally innocent man went to his death by someone getting it wrong. In the same way as the Birmingham 6, Guilford 4. If we would have had the death penalty they would all have been executed....if that is how you wish to see society run, then good luck to you

This is why it is pathetic and predicatable.

It is not a question of apartheid this thread, it is about the death penalty. If you had asked me a question about apartheid my answer would have been different.

 

[Acker79]

It is not a question of apartheid this thread, it is about the death penalty. If you had asked me a question about apartheid my answer would have been different.

This is a fact.

Before the death penalty was repealled South Afirca had a low murder rate (probably comparable to the UK).

Now it has one of the, if not the highest.

But the end of apartheid is something that has to be considered. If you are trying to draw a link between the safety/murder rate of a place before and after abolition of the death penalty, you can't refuse to discuss other things that might also play into the safety/murder rates, and when you are relying on personal opinions of individuals, you have to put their opinions in context, especially when the change in political power and social status of races is involved.