Dear spain

[The Rivet]

Gibraltar is definately British. Not because of those that now live there but also those that did. An anglo-dutch force took Gibraltar in 1704 during the war of the Spanish Succession. In 1713 the rock was ceeded to the British within the treaty of Utrecht 1713. Important, dominant Royal Navy military point at the time and even now! Shame we have no ships. However, Gibraltar and even Malta are important strong points in the area. As an aside, in a democratic Europe this is 'in your face' against the EU agreements of cross border control. Naughty Spain and it's jingoistic government!

 

[Chicken Runner61]

A lot of the GIbs are Maltese who worked in the Navy or the shipyards, proudly British despite their roots

 

[fat old seagull]

Gibraltar is definately British. Not because of those that now live there but also those that did. An anglo-dutch force took Gibraltar in 1704 during the war of the Spanish Succession. In 1713 the rock was ceeded to the British within the treaty of Utrecht 1713. Important, dominant Royal Navy military point at the time and even now! Shame we have no ships. However, Gibraltar and even Malta are important strong points in the area. As an aside, in a democratic Europe this is 'in your face' against the EU agreements of cross border control. Naughty Spain and it's jingoistic government!

Naughty Spain ? More like Naughty, Naughty, Naughty Spain and its jingo's.

 

[desprateseagull]

how will BAFC fans treat our Spainish players, if their govt decides to get heavy on Gib?

 

[portlock seagull]

I'm giving our local paella house a miss. Let me be clear, with my appetite this will have an impact. They should start to return a profit now.

 

[fat old seagull]

how will BAFC fans treat our Spainish players, if their govt decides to get heavy on Gib?

They're different.... of course. Unless they play badly. Politically free zone....unless you're Uruguayan !

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

As an aside, in a democratic Europe this is 'in your face' against the EU agreements of cross border control. Naughty Spain and it's jingoistic government!

And what about the endless "EU agreement" opt-outs Britain has? It's a bit rich to play the democratic card when Britain doesn't play ball with any democratically decided directive it doesn't like. Naughty Britain and it's jingoistic government.

 

[fat old seagull]

And what about the endless "EU agreement" opt-outs Britain has? It's a bit rich to play the democratic card when Britain doesn't play ball with any democratically decided directive it doesn't like. Naughty Britain and it's jingoistic government.

Well that'll learn us won't it. Everyone on the naughty step until our jingo's behave. And that also means ...hands off your Maracas............... And with a country full of piggin potholes why are we pouring concrete into the sea?

 

[pastafarian]

just realised my boycott of this slaghole country is now just short of 10 years.
It is an overly hot shithouse dump and the residents are c@nts......and those are the positives.

 

[Seagull on the wing]

And what about the endless "EU agreement" opt-outs Britain has? It's a bit rich to play the democratic card when Britain doesn't play ball with any democratically decided directive it doesn't like. Naughty Britain and it's jingoistic government.

Democratically....did you vote to get the Kinnock clan into the EU parliament?...did you get a vote on who is 'placed' in the EU government? We pay £20 billion a year ... for what exactly...we import more from the EU than we export to them,by joining we have lost our fishing fleet and grounds....the list is endless...we will have a vote...whether we stay in or out...

 

[Buzzer]

it's a bit skegness belonging to Luxumburg....

Presumably then, you'd be in favour of repealing the Treaty of Utrecht which gives the British a mandate for ownership of Gibraltar. The same treaty whereby Spain and France carved up Catalonia and thereafter both countries have done terrible things to Catalans, their culture and language.

Quid pro quo - I'll start taking Spanish sovereignty claims seriously when they do the right thing and grant Catalans the right to self-determination. The likes of Gwylan or Dandyman are probably better placed to answer this but I think that the current Spanish party in power is basically an offshoot of Franco's old party.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Democratically....did you vote to get the Kinnock clan into the EU parliament?...did you get a vote on who is 'placed' in the EU government? We pay £20 billion a year ... for what exactly...we import more from the EU than we export to them,by joining we have lost our fishing fleet and grounds....the list is endless...we will have a vote...whether we stay in or out...

No, I wasn't old enough at the last referendum but I have voted for pro-EU parties since and will continue to do so.

 

[Hillian1]

Where are you going instead Hillian1?

North Korea, via Myanmar (Ex Burma).

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

North Korea, via Myanmar (Ex Burma).

You'll probably enjoy Myanmar. You won't be allowed to go anywhere outside the main tourist enclaves, or stay in any basic accommodation, or travel on any local transport, but that does mean 5-star hotels and air-conditioned buses the whole time so win-win all round really

 

[gordonchas]

Presumably then, you'd be in favour of repealing the Treaty of Utrecht which gives the British a mandate for ownership of Gibraltar. The same treaty whereby Spain and France carved up Catalonia and thereafter both countries have done terrible things to Catalans, their culture and language.

Quid pro quo - I'll start taking Spanish sovereignty claims seriously when they do the right thing and grant Catalans the right to self-determination. The likes of Gwylan or Dandyman are probably better placed to answer this but I think that the current Spanish party in power is basically an offshoot of Franco's old party.

This sort of thing really amuses me. There has NEVER been a majority in favour of Catalan independence. There may be now, nobody will know unless there is a plebiscite, however it's far from certain what the result would be.

That, however, is the current situation. Are you trying to say that currently Catalans are somehow repressed by the Spanish state? Surely not. If you are then it's risible.

In fact, the Catalan independence movement is of itself jingoistic, and whilst it covers the whole political spectrum, the current call for self-determination is being led by the majority centre-right Catalan nationalists, just like the emergence of Catalan nationalism was led by the political right at the beginning of the 20th century. Let's not even get into the dark secrets of the roots of Basque nationalism.

I'm all in favour of self-determination, however Spain has a loose federalist constitution and the Catalans already have a great deal of autonomy. Trying to link the situation in Gibraltar to the situation in Catalonia, though, is as bizarre as attempting to link the current party in government in Spain with a military dictatorship that ended 40 years ago.

 

[GingerBeerMan]

I'm pretty sure this won't happen. The majority of people who cross the border daily are Spanish workers who commute the small distance to Gibraltar. They won't be able to afford this 'tax' and unemployment will soar. La Linea is already a poor area, this would just tip it over the edge to oblivion. Stupid decision.

 

[Brighton Mod]

AS long as there is a monkey on the Rock, it will remain British. Admittedly it is an anachranism, however Spain are an EU partner so this sort of behaviour is out of place and probably intended to please some politcal element in Spain.

 

[Vegas Seagull]

Lots of countries charge fees to enter, don't they?

Shameful throwaway comment, you clearly have not sat in a 4 hour queue to cross la linea have you, experiencing the pathetic, childish antics of the Spanish border police

 

[somerset]

I wonder if the Moroccans will do the same with Ceuta

Here is the potted history, or should I say Spain calling the kettle black.....

Spain claims Gibraltar, a six square km Overseas Territory of the United Kingdom in the southernmost part of the Iberian Peninsula. Then a Spanish town, it was conquered by an Anglo-Dutch force in 1704 during the War of the Spanish Succession on behalf of Archduke Charles, pretender to the Spanish throne.

The legal situation concerning Gibraltar was settled in 1713 by the Treaty of Utrecht, in which Spain ceded the territory in perpetuity to the British Crown[74] stating that, should the British abandon this post, it would be offered to Spain first. Since the 1940s Spain has called for the return of Gibraltar. The overwhelming majority of Gibraltarians strongly oppose this, along with any proposal of shared sovereignty.[75] UN resolutions call on the United Kingdom and Spain, both EU members, to reach an agreement over the status of Gibraltar.[76][77] However, the Spanish claim makes a distinction between the isthmus that connects the Rock to the Spanish mainland on the one hand, and the Rock and city of Gibraltar on the other. While the Rock and city were ceded by the Treaty of Utrecht, Spain asserts that the "occupation of the isthmus is illegal and against the principles of International Law".[78] The United Kingdom relies on de facto arguments of possession by prescription in relation to the isthmus,[79] as there has been "continuous possession [of the isthmus] over a long period".[80]

Another claim by Spain is about the Savage Islands, not recognized by Portugal.

Spain claims the sovereignty over the Perejil Island, a small, uninhabited rocky islet located in the South shore of the Strait of Gibraltar. The island lies 250 metres (820 ft) just off the coast of Morocco, 8 kilometres (5.0 mi) from Ceuta and 13.5 kilometres (8.4 mi) from mainland Spain. Its sovereignty is disputed between Spain and Morocco. It was the subject of an armed incident between the two countries in 2002. The incident ended when both countries agreed to return to the status quo ante which existed prior to the Moroccan occupation of the island. The islet is now deserted and without any sign of sovereignty.

Besides the Perejil Island, the Spanish-held territories claimed by other countries are two: Morocco claims the Spanish cities of Ceuta and Melilla and the plazas de soberanía islets off the northern coast of Africa; and Portugal does not recognise Spain's sovereignty over the territory of Olivenza.

 

[somerset]

A lot of the GIbs are Maltese who worked in the Navy or the shipyards, proudly British despite their roots

Only 25% of the Gibraltar permanent population is British by origin, the rest are Spanish and Maltese, plus a scattering of others. 83% of the population were actually born Gibraltarian.