Pavilionaire
Well-known member
- Jul 7, 2003
- 31,269
Is this going to turn out to be one of the worst decisions in modern politics?
David Cameron's non-appearance at the leadership debates...
- Thread starter Pavilionaire
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If he doesn't show then yes.
severnside gull
Well-known member
Does anyone really think he won't appear?
Although it would make sense if he didn't. Coming across as a privileged, "I'm all right" **** in front of the cameras is not a plus
Although it would make sense if he didn't. Coming across as a privileged, "I'm all right" **** in front of the cameras is not a plus
This was always likely to happen. Neither Camern nor Miliband really want the debates. Both are terrified at having to go up against Farage. The trick for both is that they have to appear keen while finding reasons to bail. Cameron's rationale is as good as any. The Greens have a sitting MP and parity with the LibDems in several polls. As such, they would seem to have as much right as UKIP to be a part of the debates.
It's a risky strategy for Cameron but probably not as risky as letting Farage have a platform in a debate. He'll remember the kick Clegg got in the polls after the last debates.
I'd be surprised if he turns up and I would still expect Miliband to find a way out too.
It's a risky strategy for Cameron but probably not as risky as letting Farage have a platform in a debate. He'll remember the kick Clegg got in the polls after the last debates.
I'd be surprised if he turns up and I would still expect Miliband to find a way out too.
spring hall convert
Well-known member
Cameron's playing a canny game as he knows the Greens will attck Labour from the left. There is a potential for cannibalisation of the left vote as tradional Labour voters realise that their party are just neo-cons wearing red and it is only the Greens that have a truly left of centre agenda.
Pretty sure OFCOM will cave on this and the Greens will be there.
Pretty sure OFCOM will cave on this and the Greens will be there.
clippedgull
Hotdogs, extra onions
He'll be there.
I didn't even know who the Green Party leader was until I looked it up!
I didn't even know who the Green Party leader was until I looked it up!
Pavilionaire
Well-known member
- Jul 7, 2003
- 31,269
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- #10
What a mess.
Ofcom have made their decision and if they back down then they look weak and lacking judgment.
If Cameron takes part without the Greens then he'll look weak.
The reality is that we have a coalition government and the polls suggest another one is likely. The voters need to assess the leaders of those parties that may be part of any coalition and for that reason I'm sure there will be a lot of interest in these debates, with or without Cameron.
I buy his argument about the Greens deserving a platform, but I didn't think he'd risk losing further ground over UKIP over the issue. If he'd said his priority was to appear but his preference was to debate with the Greens then he'd look strong AND democratic. The worry for the Tories is he's now beginning to look weak and selfish.
Ofcom have made their decision and if they back down then they look weak and lacking judgment.
If Cameron takes part without the Greens then he'll look weak.
The reality is that we have a coalition government and the polls suggest another one is likely. The voters need to assess the leaders of those parties that may be part of any coalition and for that reason I'm sure there will be a lot of interest in these debates, with or without Cameron.
I buy his argument about the Greens deserving a platform, but I didn't think he'd risk losing further ground over UKIP over the issue. If he'd said his priority was to appear but his preference was to debate with the Greens then he'd look strong AND democratic. The worry for the Tories is he's now beginning to look weak and selfish.
I agree, we are on a downward spiral towards the American style politics where image rather than substance get you elected. PMQs has descended into it now with commentators only worried about performance rather than content.
As for the debates, sitting PM will always have a hard time. Cameron is running scared and would want any excuse not to participate. He couldn't give a stuff about the Greens. Whatever the rights and wrongs of including the Greens, it is not up to Cameron to dictate the terms. As for Milliband, he may well be worried about debating with Farage but he doesn't need to object because Cameron is now the one taking the flak.
If you argue for the Greens, who only have one MP, then there is an argument to include the SDLP, SNP, Plyd Cymru, Sinn Fein, etc etc. Cameron will argue that they are all regional parties but in a hung parliament, they could be crucial when it comes to forming a coalition and therefore have a major impact on the government of the UK.
Pavilionaire
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- Jul 7, 2003
- 31,269
- Thread starter
- #12
But life doesn't work life that. If you have bad day in the exam room and fail you can't turn round and say "forget my paper, I did so well on my assignments during the year".
If you balls up a job interview you can't tell your would-be employer "forget what I've just said and look at my CV".
I want our PM to stand up there for what they believe in and go toe to toe with the opposition, I want to see the 'cut of their jib', I want to see what they're like in open negotiation and how able they are to deal with reasoned counter-argument.
He is right, but he's not doing it out of a sense of fairness.
He thinks the Greens can do to Labour what UKIP are doing to the Tories (even if UKIP are also stealing Labour votes). The Green party are no threat to the Tories - I can't see anyone switching from Tory to Green.
To the OP's question - yes, if they went ahead and he didn't turn up it would be a terrible decision. Ultimately if the/any others are there, he'll turn up.
Why is there this assumption the Greens will attack Labour? I'm sure they will "attack" but I don't see any evidence to suggest they will single Labour out.
The bottom line for me is Cameron is destroying the NHS, presiding over a failed economy and is totally incoherent with his immigration policy. These are the issues and knows he will have Labour, Lib, Greens and UKIP all gunning for him and is running scared.
I can't stand these televised debates. They reduce everything down to personality and the very worst type of political behaviour emerges - the cheap comments, the polarisation, the use of soundbite statistics in order to come across as that little bit more in the know than the opposition. Everything cancels itself out. The result is we are even more likely to elect personalities rather that politicians - then we get the politics we deserve.
Watch PMQ then.
studio150
Well-known member
It would be far better if none of them appeared, and the puppets from Spitting Image were given the platform for each debate. This would be far better entertainment, and provide more of an insight into which leader is preferable out of a bad bunch.
c0lz
North East Stand.
Why bother they all broke their promises the last time, the whole thing is a bloody joke.
I agree. But a Televised debate isn't a job interview. It's a vehicle for presenting your style over your substance. People who listened to last years debate came to very different conclusions to those that watched it. It should be about one thing: Policy. Unfortunately it's full of slimey dickheads remembering the name of whoever asked them the question and repeating it back,
"Great question Marion, the other parties standing with me today would have you believe..."
If that happened I'd be all for it - but it isn't the case. It's cardboard politicians giving stock answers during a choreographed performance. It's essentially a dance recital for bellends.
spring hall convert
Well-known member
They won't have to single Labour out. The other 4 parties (excluding UKIP on Europe) are singing slightly different words from the same hymn sheet. The Greens would demonstrate something different, that will appeal to those that are left of centre.