[Misc] CV Writing/Advice Services

[DavidinSouthampton]

Apparently too many of the systems that read CVs make errors on identifying words in PDF files which means a PDF CV can be canned even if it has the correct key words in it.

Thank you.

Many years ago I came across somewhere where they had a lot of applications for a job which needed to be degree qualified. They gave them to a junior on reception for an initial sort without giving her any sort of instruction. She only recognised BA or BSc as a degree, and consequently anyone with an MA, MSc, MBA, PhD etc did not make the initial sort. I was told this by the Personnel manager of the company involved, and they did realise before it was too late.

But back to the OP, whatever happens with your CV, It is most important that you are HAPPY with it, that you can "own" it. I had an experience 20+ years ago where the personnel manager of a company that made me redundant helped me (and others) put together a CV, including paying for Belbin tests and the like. I was never happy about it, and it was not until I rewrote it, with much of the same information, that I was happy with it and it started bringing results.

 

[Commander]

I used a CV writing service spent £300, I personally thought she came up with the in words, but basically said the same thing as I had on my CV in more of a corporate wording.
Waste of money IMO as I just got independent recruiters promising the earth and coming up with little to nothing.



Sorry Commander, but I have had poor experiences of recruiters, what really separates the good ones to the bad ones, for your employee customer

The main problem with recruitment is mentioned in your sentence above. The employee isn't the customer, the client is. The employee doesn't pay the fees, the clients do. Candidates tend to think that the recruiter is trying to do a good job for them, but they aren't, they are trying to do a good job for their client. That is why candidates often feel like they get a bad service, because the recruiter is just trying to find someone that the client will be happy to pay thousands of pounds for, and candidates who aren't going to wow the client aren't people that it makes sense for the recruiter to spend a lot of time on.

If you're trying to sell cars to people, you don't want to spend much time on cars with issues that are going to be difficult to sell, do you? It's harsh, but it's the reality, and all the time recruitment is set up like this, it isn't going to change.

Of course, it's far better to be a long-term thinking recruiter that understands the benefit in doing your best for everyone, as you gain a good reputation in the long run which leads to more success, but it is a cut-throat industry and in a lot of recruitment companies you don't get this kind of time, you have to make them money quickly or you're out the door. I'd estimate the average time in a job of a recruiter is about the same as a football manager. How many football clubs give their managers time and space to properly build something and make a success of it long-term, even if it is to the detriment of the short-term? It's a similar situation in this industry, unfortunately.

 

[father_and_son]

I don't know why you wouldn't send it to a prospective employer as a pdf but I guess they might have meant it's more difficult for a recruiter to amend it (ie remove personal details, tailor to specific role, re-format etc) if it is a pdf.

I have had exactly this, but for very negative reasons... sat in an interview and saw the version of my CV that the employer had and the agency had reformated everything (basically just to get their logo on the top I think) but it looked absolutely terrible (even from a distance and upside down!) and I had to say something. For a while I submitted my CV as a PDF but stopped after meeting an agent I trusted and who I have worked with as a empoyee and as an employer ever since.

 

[Deleted member 2719]

The main problem with recruitment is mentioned in your sentence above. The employee isn't the customer, the client is. The employee doesn't pay the fees, the clients do. Candidates tend to think that the recruiter is trying to do a good job for them, but they aren't, they are trying to do a good job for their client. That is why candidates often feel like they get a bad service, because the recruiter is just trying to find someone that the client will be happy to pay thousands of pounds for, and candidates who aren't going to wow the client aren't people that it makes sense for the recruiter to spend a lot of time on.

If you're trying to sell cars to people, you don't want to spend much time on cars with issues that are going to be difficult to sell, do you? It's harsh, but it's the reality, and all the time recruitment is set up like this, it isn't going to change.

Of course, it's far better to be a long-term thinking recruiter that understands the benefit in doing your best for everyone, as you gain a good reputation in the long run which leads to more success, but it is a cut-throat industry and in a lot of recruitment companies you don't get this kind of time, you have to make them money quickly or you're out the door. I'd estimate the average time in a job of a recruiter is about the same as a football manager. How many football clubs give their managers time and space to properly build something and make a success of it long-term, even if it is to the detriment of the short-term? It's a similar situation in this industry, unfortunately.

Why not break the mould

I totally get your perspective, but like you say its should be a long term goal. It took Amazon 14 years to make a net profit, because they thought bigger picture. They have now overtaken Microsoft.

Think of the whole buying and selling experience and they will be rewarded.

I had recruiters creaming themselves over me one minute and then saying sorry mate i can see it but somone else more qualified has got the job.

Perhaps they should look at the odd classic vehicle as they may get a great investment and the ride of their life. But because it has the latest sat nav on board it really doesn't mean to say it will give the customer the best buy, but many recruiters feel the customer wanted a sat nav so thats what he will have, a few months down the line sat nav is broken and they have a basic car with four wheels.

All I ask of recruiters is to open up the person more and you may just find a Buggatti in that barn.

 

[CheeseRolls]

It has been a few years, since I was on the market, (but not that many). I was also trying to build up a good Linkedin profile at the time, so sent a few requests to connect to recruitment professionals, who I thought may be helpful to me. It is interesting to see a few years later the diverse and different roles, they have moved onto. The Commander seems to be something of an exception in his longevity.

Personal contacts/recommendations remain the best introduction, I was struggling at the time, as I had spend most of the previous three years working out of Paris.

I ended up with at least three variants of my CV, depending on what type of role and the response from agencies. Essentially I had two short versions of the 1-2 page type that emphasised different skills sets for specific roles and one long form one for the occasions, when the professional advice was that more detail was required. No doubt someone will tell you that there are sophisticated search engines that will flag this and rule you out of all manor of opportunities, I have yet to see any evidence to support this. If you are comfortable that both versions are truthful and represent you, what is the issue?

 

[Brovion]

...
Outside Interests
A single paragraph that just shows you are human but focus on what makes you interesting... give the interviewer something for a chat before/after the interview as you walk to/from reception. Everyone watches TV and enjoys movies and travelling - don't bother mentioning that!

...

Good point. I have not properly recruited for some time but once when I was confronted with 50 odd CVs for a contract position, which all had similar experience etc, I chose 3 to interview based on outside interests: one had played pro football for Luton Town, one was a sound engineer and in a failed boy band in a previous life and another wrote an MA on American political hedgemony.

O/T - You two should get yourselves over to the 'Bellcheeses' thread. There's an absolutely brilliant example of 'Outside Interests'!
(Currently last page or last couple of pages depending on your thread page length settings)

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

On a page if you can. I've spent 35 years in business, often at senior levels and can still get it on a page, with extra narrow margins

What you accomplished 20, even 10 years ago is of little importance. You just want it to open doors, not get you the job

Happy to take a look if you want to PM me

Sorry, but one page is nonsense.

Front page should be your personal details: name, age, qualifications, key skills, and NOT hobbies (which invariably just make you look like a wanker - if they're that interested, which they're not, they'll ask you at interview stage)

Subsequent pages should be a brief paragraph of your roles, with the most recent role first, including major keywords of key skills. Write it in the third person to make it look like lazy recruitment consultants wrote it themselves. Depending on your track record, perfectly acceptable to have a 2 or 3 page CV, with the front sheet reserved for your personal details. Like I say, a singlr page CV is a complete nonsense, unless you're about sixteen years old with no employment history.

 

[father_and_son]

O/T - You two should get yourselves over to the 'Bellcheeses' thread. There's an absolutely brilliant example of 'Outside Interests'!
(Currently last page or last couple of pages depending on your thread page length settings)

This basically sums up why I like to see "outside interests" on CVs... so I never have to post on the bellcheese thread about anyone who works for me!
However good his IT skills, he would not have made it past first reading of his CV.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Sorry, but one page is nonsense.

Front page should be your personal details: name, age, qualifications, key skills, and NOT hobbies (which invariably just make you look like a wanker - if they're that interested, which they're not, they'll ask you at interview stage)

Subsequent pages should be a brief paragraph of your roles, with the most recent role first, including major keywords of key skills. Write it in the third person to make it look like lazy recruitment consultants wrote it themselves. Depending on your track record, perfectly acceptable to have a 2 or 3 page CV, with the front sheet reserved for your personal details. Like I say, a singlr page CV is a complete nonsense, unless you're about sixteen years old with no employment history.

Hmmmm ..... James Reed of the Reed Recruitment disagrees with you. Apparently the average time a recruitment consultant spends reading a CV at first scan is 7 seconds. I've now had my CV reviewed by a number of people and each and everyone has said it was too wordy - and it was only 2.5 pages ( a special thanks to [MENTION=2095]Commander[/MENTION] for his review ). I think I'll go for two pages ot less. Agree with you about outside interests though.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Hmmmm ..... James Reed of the Reed Recruitment disagrees with you. Apparently the average time a recruitment consultant spends reading a CV at first scan is 7 seconds. I've now had my CV reviewed by a number of people and each and everyone has said it was too wordy - and it was only 2.5 pages ( a special tahnks to [MENTION=2095]Commander[/MENTION] for his review ). I think I'll go for two pages ot less. Agree with you about outside interests though.

I think the very worst thing you can do is rewrite your CV to suit the tastes of an individual recruitment consultant. Because the next recruitment consultant will tell you something completely different. Before you know it, you'll have a dozen rewrites of your CV. **** that for a game of soldiers. All these wise guys are only (just) smart enough to use a search engine anyways. So ensure you include the must-have keywords on your cv and let the recruitment agents find YOU. To maximise your chances, use something far-reaching like Jobserve. NEVER trust to one individual recruitment agent. They'll have their own sey of priorities, which may or may not coincide with your own. Why take the risk of them stringing you along longtime?

 

[Commander]

I think the very worst thing you can do is rewrite your CV to suit the tastes of an individual recruitment consultant. Because the next recruitment consultant will tell you something completely different. Before you know it, you'll have a dozen rewrites of your CV. **** that for a game of soldiers. All these wise guys are only (just) smart enough to use a search engine anyways. So ensure you include the must-have keywords on your cv and let the recruitment agents find YOU. To maximise your chances, use something far-reaching like Jobserve. NEVER trust to one individual recruitment agent. They'll have their own sey of priorities, which may or may not coincide with your own. Why take the risk of them stringing you along longtime?

Probably the worst advice I’ve ever read on this subject.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Probably the worst advice I’ve ever read on this subject.

Well you would say that, wouldn't you? Coming from the other side of the fence, I'd 100% say my contacting experience with more than a dozen blue chip clients over a quarter of a century at no point included bowing down to the 7 second attention span of an individual recruitment agent.

What would FRANK say?

 

[Commander]

Well you would say that, wouldn't you? Coming from the other side of the fence, I'd 100% say my contacting experience with more than a dozen blue chip clients over a quarter of a century at no point included bowing down to the 7 second attention span of an individual recruitment agent.

What would FRANK say?

Do you think people who work in recruitment don’t ever have to look for jobs themselves? The difference is that they can see it from BOTH sides of the fence, where as you can only see it from one.

I think Frank would have come around to my side by now.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Do you think people who work in recruitment don’t ever have to look for jobs themselves? The difference is that they can see it from BOTH sides of the fence, where as you can only see it from one.

I think Frank would have come around to my side by now.

Hope you know more about recruitment than you know about the late great FRANK

 

[FatSuperman]

This basically sums up why I like to see "outside interests" on CVs... so I never have to post on the bellcheese thread about anyone who works for me!
However good his IT skills, he would not have made it past first reading of his CV.

His CV is 3-pages long, over 1,500 words and has a 13*5 table in the middle listing all his previous job roles.

In my experience, long CV = doom. Mine is two pages, but it's narrow and I have a sexy picture on it.

 

[father_and_son]

His CV is 3-pages long, over 1,500 words and has a 13*5 table in the middle listing all his previous job roles.

In my experience, long CV = doom. Mine is two pages, but it's narrow and I have a sexy picture on it.

I don't think long CV means doom... It does mean anything you wrote on page 3 is a waste of ink.

Sexy picture seems scarier than some of the outside interests I have seen!

 

[NooBHA]

I'm in the market for a new job and a recruitment agent last week suggested I needed to review how my CV was written - "too wordy" was his view.

I've been contacted by a CV Writing service but being the cynical old ******* I am I'm not sure it's worth spending money on a new CV. I heard James Reed of the Reed recruitment website on the radio yesterday talking about a 7 second CV ( although he is pushing is book on the subject ) and he was suggesting a single page was now prefered. So, over to the experts on here :

1. Anyone used one of these services ?
2. Was it worth the money ? This offer is for £299 and contains some extras about focussed re-writes etc. In years gone by I meet with one service that charged £4k ( and strangely I didn't sign up ) so this seems reasonable for the cost.
3. Any recommendations of which service to use ?

What do recruitment agents such as [MENTION=2095]Commander[/MENTION] think of these services ? Do they really get your CV to "the top of the pile" ?

You should be able to do your own for free, although I appreciate it's a cutthroat labour market so a professional one might be advisable. I'd sy no one should be charging more than £100 to prepare it

I'd do it for nowt for you but it's a real busy time for me right now work wise - The one who wants to charge £4K - I would be expecting them to be able to add an extra 6 GCSEs and a first class Honours Degree at University on to my CV for that price

Although, you would be surprised how many people that I have interviewed, who have those extra qualifications on their CV, who's documentation has been '' lost in a fire '' or ''lost when they moved house'' when they get asked to produce them. They probably went to the guy who is charging £4K.

A good CV Writer should be able to make a ''First Aid Certificate'' look like an ''OBE'' - I would bite the bullet and try it yourself first using internet tips and then let someone look over it and tweak it for you.

 

[Mr Banana]

I think this is good: https://www.journoresources.org.uk/...job-applications-as-someone-who-hires-people/

All the best with it!

 

[NooBHA]

Probably the worst advice I’ve ever read on this subject.

100% Correct.

The layout at least should always be tailored specifically to the particular job you are applying for, and experience relating to that employer brought to the front page with virtually no exceptions.

I would usually, not dismiss, but not favour CVs who put Qualifications on the front. Unless of course it was a ''Graduate Take On Position'' - And always, ''Latest Employment First'' , unless experience at an earlier firm favoured the job being applied for

 

[Skaville]

Hope you know more about recruitment than you know about the late great FRANK

Yep. The “late great” Frank was so unwilling to back down and listen to reason, he chose to flounce instead.