Curbs on EU benefits to come into force on 1 January!

[cunning fergus]

You will have to reproduce that article I'm afraid. I do not have FT access.

Try this one.............

http://www.welt.de/print/die_welt/article122491919/Angst-vor-Sozialtourismus-nach-Deutschland.html

 

[cunning fergus]

You will have to reproduce that article I'm afraid. I do not have FT access.

German parties call for referendums on EU issues
By Stefan Wagstyl in Berlin
Angela Merkel’s would-be coalition partners are seeking the right to hold referendums on EU issues in Germany, a controversial policy that could impose greater constraints on Berlin’s leeway in managing the eurozone crisis.

The proposals, advanced by the conservative CSU and centre-left SPD, ran into immediate opposition from Ms Merkel’s dominant CDU grouping, casting doubt on their viability.

“We won’t agree with the plan,” said Günter Krings, the CDU’s deputy parliamentary leader. “Popular votes would damage parliament.”

Nonetheless, the move reflects the deep strains within German society calling for greater say over the EU and its use of German taxpayers’ funds to combat the eurozone crisis.

If the referendum idea gains traction in Germany it could also embolden those British MPs who have been pushing for a rapid vote in the UK on its EU membership.

A paper put forward by CSU interior minister Hans-Peter Friedrich and Thomas Oppermann, head of the SPD’s parliamentary group, said voters “should be asked directly on European policy decisions of special importance”.

The report calls for referendums when new countries join the EU, when powers are transferred from Germany to Brussels and when Berlin commits large amounts of new money to the EU. The authors also propose referendums when other important laws are passed by the German parliament.

The CSU’s Mr Friedrich later conceded that there was no agreement with the CDU on the issue but a party spokesman told the Financial Times that negotiations were still going on.

One observer viewed the proposal as a CSU ploy to pressure Ms Merkel over plans for motorway tolls, a key demand of the CSU opposed by both the CDU and the SPD. Andreas Busch, a politics professor at Göttingen University, suggested the CSU could later drop the referendum call in return for securing tolls.

But others see the CSU and the SPD as trying to respond to voter demands for a greater say, particularly over EU affairs. Hans Meyer, a law professor at Berlin Humboldt University, said German voters were concerned about the “lack of democracy” in the EU.

The proposal reignites a long-running debate over referendums in Germany. The post-second world war constitution limited the role of national referendums after political experts judged that plebiscites had played a part in bringing Hitler to power.

National referendums were limited to changing the constitution or the borders of the 16 federal states. Even then, there was no referendum at the time of Germany’s 1990 reunification – due to CDU opposition.

There were referendums over two planned state mergers. In 1951 voters backed the union of Baden and Württemberg into the state of Baden-Württemberg and in 1996 they rejected the merger of Berlin and Brandenburg.

More recently there have been referendums on controversial local issues. This month, Berlin voters rejected proposals to re-impose public control over the city’s electricity utility and the Munich region threw out a planned bid for the 2022 Winter Olympics.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

German parties call for referendums on EU issues
By Stefan Wagstyl in Berlin
Angela Merkel’s would-be coalition partners are seeking the right to hold referendums on EU issues in Germany, a controversial policy that could impose greater constraints on Berlin’s leeway in managing the eurozone crisis.

The proposals, advanced by the conservative CSU and centre-left SPD, ran into immediate opposition from Ms Merkel’s dominant CDU grouping, casting doubt on their viability.

“We won’t agree with the plan,” said Günter Krings, the CDU’s deputy parliamentary leader. “Popular votes would damage parliament.”

Nonetheless, the move reflects the deep strains within German society calling for greater say over the EU and its use of German taxpayers’ funds to combat the eurozone crisis.

If the referendum idea gains traction in Germany it could also embolden those British MPs who have been pushing for a rapid vote in the UK on its EU membership.

A paper put forward by CSU interior minister Hans-Peter Friedrich and Thomas Oppermann, head of the SPD’s parliamentary group, said voters “should be asked directly on European policy decisions of special importance”.

The report calls for referendums when new countries join the EU, when powers are transferred from Germany to Brussels and when Berlin commits large amounts of new money to the EU. The authors also propose referendums when other important laws are passed by the German parliament.

The CSU’s Mr Friedrich later conceded that there was no agreement with the CDU on the issue but a party spokesman told the Financial Times that negotiations were still going on.

One observer viewed the proposal as a CSU ploy to pressure Ms Merkel over plans for motorway tolls, a key demand of the CSU opposed by both the CDU and the SPD. Andreas Busch, a politics professor at Göttingen University, suggested the CSU could later drop the referendum call in return for securing tolls.

But others see the CSU and the SPD as trying to respond to voter demands for a greater say, particularly over EU affairs. Hans Meyer, a law professor at Berlin Humboldt University, said German voters were concerned about the “lack of democracy” in the EU.

The proposal reignites a long-running debate over referendums in Germany. The post-second world war constitution limited the role of national referendums after political experts judged that plebiscites had played a part in bringing Hitler to power.

National referendums were limited to changing the constitution or the borders of the 16 federal states. Even then, there was no referendum at the time of Germany’s 1990 reunification – due to CDU opposition.

There were referendums over two planned state mergers. In 1951 voters backed the union of Baden and Württemberg into the state of Baden-Württemberg and in 1996 they rejected the merger of Berlin and Brandenburg.

More recently there have been referendums on controversial local issues. This month, Berlin voters rejected proposals to re-impose public control over the city’s electricity utility and the Munich region threw out a planned bid for the 2022 Winter Olympics.

? You need to keep up. The 'grand' coalition has been agreed and none of this seems to be in it. You might want to check the date of your article.

It is fair to say that Germany voted quite clearly for more of Merkel and with this comes the attendant position on the EU. The Germans are not mugs.

 

[cunning fergus]

? You need to keep up. The 'grand' coalition has been agreed and none of this seems to be in it. You might want to check the date of your article.

It is fair to say that Germany voted quite clearly for more of Merkel and with this comes the attendant position on the EU. The Germans are not mugs.

That's right, Merkel was voted in formally 2 days ago, after nearly 3 months of political horse trading following elections in September...........so the voters didnt really know beyond Merkel what they were going to get (cabinet ministers were only recently announced too).

I disagree, German voters are being royally mugged off, and they know it..............all the news on Greece's 3rd bailout has been quiet recently but now the political stuff is over and Merkel is in, it will soon be back to business as normal and the impoverished EU countries will be gathering round for another suckle of mama Merkel tit...........courtesy of the German taxpayer.

http://www.cityam.com/article/1377573115/greek-minister-pushes-10bn-bailout-no-conditions

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

That's right, Merkel was voted in formally 2 days ago, after nearly 3 months of political horse trading following elections in September...........so the voters didnt really know beyond Merkel what they were going to get (cabinet ministers were only recently announced too)

You do not seem to know much about how the German parliament works. Do not judge it on the UK's coalition. Merkel got an unprecedented % of the vote so she gets to call most of the shots and her people have got the key positions. To think that after Merkel won 42% of the vote the country "did not really know" what they were going to get is utterly absurd. The whole nation (and most of the UK press) knew that it would be her manifesto but with a few concessions for her (junior) partner. These were the minimum wage, rent controls and dual-nationaliaty. This is pretty much it I think. I admit the nation did not know what these concessions would be....but these are mere details and hardly affect the bigger picture.

 

[EDS]

This. As an aside I also wonder why fans of opposing teams come on here for lengthy durations. I have absolutely no interest in any other clubs message boards.

Maybe I am a double agent Hows Germany

 

[El Presidente]

I see you are playing your wally act again, come back when you are feeling grown up again

What on earth do you mean? You have an issue with migrants, given that my parents were migrants I want to know your views on them, as you appear to be making a sweeping generalisation of people with no knowledge of specific individuals.

The irony of you being a migrant on NSC is probably lost on you too.

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

The irony of you being a migrant on NSC is probably lost on you too.

Yeah , they're not wanted on here , poisoning our forum with pro-Nigelist opinions. Vote NSCIP

 

[EDS]

I said I could talk I day about migrant workers and you asked what I thought was wrong with your parents.

As for the NSC migrant thing, get over yourself.

 

[cunning fergus]

You do not seem to know much about how the German parliament works. Do not judge it on the UK's coalition. Merkel got an unprecedented % of the vote so she gets to call most of the shots and her people have got the key positions. To think that after Merkel won 42% of the vote the country "did not really know" what they were going to get is utterly absurd. The whole nation (and most of the UK press) knew that it would be her manifesto but with a few concessions for her (junior) partner. These were the minimum wage, rent controls and dual-nationaliaty. This is pretty much it I think. I admit the nation did not know what these concessions would be....but these are mere details and hardly affect the bigger picture.

yeah, sure all these post election discussions were a veritible cake walk...............everyone in Germany happy with the 3 month vacum with a caretaker government not able to make any seious decisions.

http://www.economist.com/news/europ...on-angela-merkels-efforts-form-new-government

I will let you take it up with the economist given that you evidently have a more developed insight into this matter than their correspondent.

 

[EDS]

I think people trying to live off of benefits is a social attitude problem not a problem of the amount of benefits handed out. People (from childhood) should be educated to a higher standard and with a higher quality than they currently are and then they will not be happy with being unemployed and will only claim benefits if they need them. As it stands we are taught from a young age to get as much money as we can for as little effort as possible and to screw everyone else over in the process. This is what causes the problem.

The thing about that is though, with all those people educated to a higher standard there would still be a shortfall of jobs as so many people would be going for the higher paid ones and may refuse to work for anything less, if you know what I mean

 

[Seagull on the wing]

What if they live too far to walk?

What if something very traumatic happened to them whilst walking alone which has resulted in them not being able to work?

It looks as if you think the benefit system should be a punishment for people unable to work.

I'll answer your questions in reverse...the second one probably the lamest and most inane question put on NSC...The benefit system was put in place to give people out of work a basic living wage...not to finance wide screen televisions,game boys,Iphones,cigarettes and booze.
Your next question about 'something traumatic happening to them whilst walking alone'...what if something happened to them getting out of bed,or getting in the bath or perm as many accidents you want...it's called a life chance/change
What if they live to far to walk to work...ever heard of buses,public transport...if they were that keen they would say...I'll delay buying that Grand Theft Auto 5 and catch a bus to work to earn money then get the game...the trouble with modern people...they want it and want it now.
I do have two computers,two mobiles...one an Iphone,a wide screen 3D telly...never brought anything on credit...if I want something...I save for it...Because I saved for the things I wanted I have sacrificed holidays...had two in 10 years,one which was paid for as a gift...how many people on benefits go abroad every year?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

yeah, sure all these post election discussions were a veritible cake walk...............everyone in Germany happy with the 3 month vacum with a caretaker government not able to make any seious decisions.

http://www.economist.com/news/europ...on-angela-merkels-efforts-form-new-government

I will let you take it up with the economist given that you evidently have a more developed insight into this matter than their correspondent.

That was written back in November though, and again a lot of the guess work in this article has been proven wrong. Please read these links you post and at the very least check the date. And I do have "more developed insight" at this moment in time because I am talking after the event and with hindsite.

One thing you need to realise is that they do things differently here. Just because a nation has a different approach to the UK it does not mean there is a "power vacuum." I appreciate the discussions were not a 'cake walk' - no one said they were. But, they were perfectly normal, perfectly acceptable and follow all elections. Part of it is for historical reasons....the Germans are a little wary of a single party having an unchecked mandate.