[Brighton] Crystal Palace Fan Labour Brighton Pavilion MP Candidate

[beorhthelm]

Gender roles are the result of and are constructed by class-based societies.

yep. original claim was its all capitalism, now you're onto class-based societies, could just acknowledge most socities recognise gender differences.

 

[Live by the sea]

It won't be a coincidence. Ignoring people with personality disorders for a minute (who just need attention), there will be people who are genuinely trans, who feel more able to be open about it now than they used to. Just as more people come out as gay now that being gay is more accepted.

I trust that you agree that quite a lot of people are genuinely gay/lesbian? Yet there are none in Saudi Arabia. Is there something in our water? Obviously there are plenty of gay/lesbian people in Saudi Arabia, but coming out is simply not an option there. If their laws and culture changed such that it was accepted, people would come out as gay. Would you then say that those people are only pretending to be gay because of the rise in publicity, social media etc? Or would you recognise that they've suddenly come out because they can do so without being executed?

I totally agree but I don’t think in England people are generally scared to come out . You can’t really compare barbaric Middle East countries with liberal democracies like England .

 

[The Fifth Column]

You don't think people chose to be gay, too, do you, by any chance?

This is nothing to do with sexuality it's to do with the recently invented idea of gender identity.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

This is nothing to do with sexuality it's to do with the recently invented idea of gender identity.

It is no more 'recently invented' than autism, veganism and other things that make some people feel uncomfortable. Ideas about it began to come to the fore in the 1960s. But there has been a great deal of pushback.

From people like you who don't understand it or want to understand it, but feel the need to tell the rest of us what you think.

Gender identity - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

It doesn't even matter what you think. It doesn't matter what I think, either. The facts exist outside of our opinion of them.

Incidentally did you know that lesbianism was never been illegal in the UK, because Queen Victoria refused to believe such a thing existed?

 

[m20gull]

I haven't read the whole thread so apologies if I'm repeating others but Astrosloth is spot on.

Intersex is a term which roughly describes sexual/gender ambiguity. Gender can be defined in four ways biologically (I think) - I won't bore you with the details but it can be done at a genetic level (looking for the presence of a Y chromosome), based on histology of gonads (ovaries or testicles), ductal sex (details not important), or genital sex (what the external genitalia look like). Sexual ambiguity occurs when these four methods don't agree in one individual. Some babies can be born with ambiguous genitalia where it's hard to tell if the baby is male or female from the appearance of the genitals. I agree there is another social perspective to gender - the above is purely biological but could explain why some people may appear to be of one gender and feel themselves to be the other.

A google search says that 1.7% of the global population are intersex so it's hardly a rare thing. 1.1 million in the UK according to a google search.

Not got much to do with Eddie Izzard as a labour candidate though.

The proportion of the population with a DSD (Difference in sexual development) is 1.7% but the sex of most of them can be identified correctly. The proportion of the population that cannot be sexed is a somewhat lower 0.018%. I do agree with your final point.

 

[The Fifth Column]

It is no more 'recently invented' than autism, veganism and other things that make some people feel uncomfortable. Ideas about it began to come to the fore in the 1960s. But there has been a great deal of pushback.

From people like you who don't understand it or want to understand it, but feel the need to tell the rest of us what you think.

Gender identity - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

It doesn't even matter what you think. It doesn't matter what I think, either. The facts exist outside of our opinion of them.

Incidentally did you know that lesbianism was never been illegal in the UK, because Queen Victoria refused to believe such a thing existed?

As is always the case with the pronoun police and 'people like you' to coin your own phrase, you shriek louder and longer, resort to name calling and try your best to belittle anyone with a contrary opinion to your own. You bring unrelated subjects into the argument which I have made no comment on to prop up your argument and patronise thinking it establishes you as the winner of any argument, its common behaviour from you going by your past replies. It doesn't fool anyone, you don't know what I do or do not understand. The whole concept of gender identity is pseudoscience at best and given its a concept or construct and patently unprovable, I have every right to opt out of recognising it and every right to give my opinion on it, you don't have to like it or read it.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

As is always the case with the pronoun police and 'people like you' to coin your own phrase, you shriek louder and longer, resort to name calling and try your best to belittle anyone with a contrary opinion to your own. You bring unrelated subjects into the argument which I have made no comment on to prop up your argument and patronise thinking it establishes you as the winner of any argument, its common behaviour from you going by your past replies. It doesn't fool anyone, you don't know what I do or do not understand. The whole concept of gender identity is pseudoscience at best and given its a concept or construct and patently unprovable, I have every right to opt out of recognising it and every right to give my opinion on it, you don't have to like it or read it.

You aren't able or willing to understand what I've written. I don't care. Dry your eyes.

 

[The Fifth Column]

You aren't able or willing to understand what I've written. I don't care. Dry your eyes.

And there you go again proving my point quite nicely, thank you.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

And there you go again proving my point quite nicely, thank you.

You don't appear to know what a proven point looks like. Who knew (apart from everyone)?

 

[Goldstone Guy]

The proportion of the population with a DSD (Difference in sexual development) is 1.7% but the sex of most of them can be identified correctly. The proportion of the population that cannot be sexed is a somewhat lower 0.018%. I do agree with your final point.

Define sex being identified correctly? Is that on genetic makeup, external genitalia or what? I don't dispute your figures by the way. Anyway, my point was those arguing against Astrosloth saying gender isn't always binary were clearly talking bollocks. Or perhaps that should be ovaries.

 

[Triggaaar]

I totally agree but I don’t think in England people are generally scared to come out . You can’t really compare barbaric Middle East countries with liberal democracies like England .

The reality is that people didn't used to feel comfortable coming out as trans. There are parts of the UK where people still won't want to come out.

 

[Springal]

The reality is that people didn't used to feel comfortable coming out as trans. There are parts of the UK where people still won't want to come out.

Wasn’t that long ago if you were gay and serving in the forces you’d be thrown out!

 

[knocky1]

I'll be voting for Sian as agree that a Green voice in Parliament is worthwhile and don't want to contribute to a Labour majority so lucky to have an alternative option.

I sympathise with that. Saw my MP Peter Kyle on the Prom today with Eddie Izzard on the Pride Parade. Kept quiet about Peter's prior refusal to attack Zionism in his fear of being branded anti-semitic and about her being Palace.
Today was about Pride and everyone was so resilient and brilliant with the storm facing us.
Sian first on your reasons and Eddie as the alternative. Spot on.

 

[Chicken Run]

That's right. I'd say that most of the people in the Labour Party in Brighton are more anti-Green than anti-Tory. I don't know if the Greens hate Labour in the same way but certainly on the Labour side, the hatred is visceral .

I sympathise with that. Saw my MP Peter Kyle on the Prom today with Eddie Izzard on the Pride Parade. Kept quiet about Peter's prior refusal to attack Zionism in his fear of being branded anti-semitic and about her being Palace.

Today was about Pride and everyone was so resilient and brilliant with the storm facing us.
Sian first on your reasons and Eddie as the alternative. Spot on.

’Eddie’ hasn’t been selected yet, I’m assuming you think selection is a shoe in for them then?

 

[Colonel Mustard]

’Eddie’ hasn’t been selected yet, I’m assuming you think selection is a shoe in for them then?

I know that question isn’t aimed at me but my tuppenceworth is that Izzard is far from being a shoo-in. I don’t doubt that he’s a committed Labour supporter, and obviously has a high profile, but is nevertheless a divisive figure who might be seen as something of a distraction from the task in hand. The selection panel will have to decide whether a less colourful but safer pair of hands might be a wiser choice. I suspect they will decide against him but let’s see.

 

[knocky1]

I sympathise with that. Saw my MP Peter Kyle on the Prom today with Eddie Izzard on the Pride Parade. Kept quiet about Peter's prior refusal to attack Zionism in his fear of being branded anti-semitic and about her being Palace.

’Eddie’ hasn’t been selected yet, I’m assuming you think selection is a shoe in for them then?

No I don't think she's a shoe in but think she would create a win/win position for me in the scenario that she were to stand.

Personally I'd like Sian in Brighton Pavilion and Eddie MP elsewhere.

 

[Is it PotG?]

Oddly, and spookily, he was the Proprietor of the Lion Mansion back in 1894, recently burned to the ground.

 

[Chicken Run]

Another hopeful for the Labour Candidacy…

Singer and activist considers bid to be Labour MP candidate in Brighton Pavilion

A singer, guitarist and activist has said he may throw his hat in the ring to be Labour’s next MP for Brighton Pavilion

www.theargus.co.uk

 

[Chicken Run]

Oddly, and spookily, he was the Proprietor of the Lion Mansion back in 1894, recently burned to the ground.

View attachment 164646

Good find but one Z not two

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Izzard does say that it's important to elect a Labour MP in Brighton Pavilion so the city can have a voice in government. Take note all those of you tempted to vote for Lucas's successor.

So the other two City MPs being Labour, one a junior shadow minister, mean the city doesn't have a voice in government ( assuming Labour do actually win the next GE ) ?