could have been the transfer of the century

[glasfryn]

the police chief in Hampshire to Rotherham

he could have maybe saved 1400 children from abuse
I mean is this one of the OTT police searches ever

 

[surrey jim]

the police chief in Hampshire to Rotherham

he could have maybe saved 1400 children from abuse
I mean is this one of the OTT police searches ever

They found the child in Spain. From what I have read, the child's parents took a seriously ill child out of hospital and medial attention with no mention of where they were going. I would expect the police to investigate and ensure the child's welfare is ok.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

They found the child in Spain. From what I have read, the child's parents took a seriously ill child out of hospital and medial attention with no mention of where they were going. I would expect the police to investigate and ensure the child's welfare is ok.

Completely disagree. I don't condone what the parents did but it would appear the medical staff knew that the parents wanted alternative treatment and the hospital refused to give this alternative treatment. It's a fundamental right in this country to refuse treatment. For the police to have wasted so much time and effort, as well issue European Arrest Warrants for the parents for doing something that wasn't illegal is ridiculous.

 

[beorhthelm]

i think its sad situation with a massive overreation from the police, when they've stated no offense has been commited and they just want to talk to the family. the second the family released the video saying they were OK, police should have withdrawn the warrant. instead today we have the parents in jail in spain. hope the family sue the crap out of the police for wrongful arrest.

also makes a case that we dont need extra police powers to deal with terrorism when people can be arrested like this.

 

[Tricky Dicky]

Completely disagree. I don't condone what the parents did but it would appear the medical staff knew that the parents wanted alternative treatment and the hospital refused to give this alternative treatment. It's a fundamental right in this country to refuse treatment. For the police to have wasted so much time and effort, as well issue European Arrest Warrants for the parents for doing something that wasn't illegal is ridiculous.

If the hospital made a complaint then I don't think the police had any alternative but to investigate. However, what has happened after that seems heavy-handed to say the least. If they have not broken a law - which seems to be the consensus, how can an international warrent be issued and the parents arrested. These are not bad parents, they understand what has happened and want the best for their boy. If the hospital said they can do nothing more for him then they were quite entitled to seek alternative treatments elsewhere. A sad story all round with no easy answer.

One thing, given all the publicity, he'll probably get all the best treatment available now

 

[drew]

Completely disagree. I don't condone what the parents did but it would appear the medical staff knew that the parents wanted alternative treatment and the hospital refused to give this alternative treatment. It's a fundamental right in this country to refuse treatment. For the police to have wasted so much time and effort, as well issue European Arrest Warrants for the parents for doing something that wasn't illegal is ridiculous.

You make it sound like the hospital arbitrarily declined proton treatment. It is not available here and not expected to be ready until 2018. Patients deemed suitable for it are sent to the US at a cost of £90k per patient. There is a centre in Prague which I believe is where the family were eventually aiming to go. However, we don't know what they told the hospital before they took the child away. We don't know what the hospital had said about whether the child was even suitable for Proton therapy.

If the parents wanted treatment in Prague and were going to pay for it themselves, I can't see that the hospital would have stopped them. Why didn't the father or the mother just go to Spain to raise the funds (I believe they were going to sell a property there) and leave Ashya in the hospital with the remaining parent until they were ready to take him to Prague?

Too many unanswered questions to arrive at sensible conclusion.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

You make it sound like the hospital arbitrarily declined proton treatment. It is not available here and not expected to be ready until 2018. Patients deemed suitable for it are sent to the US at a cost of £90k per patient. There is a centre in Prague which I believe is where the family were eventually aiming to go. However, we don't know what they told the hospital before they took the child away. We don't know what the hospital had said about whether the child was even suitable for Proton therapy.

If the parents wanted treatment in Prague and were going to pay for it themselves, I can't see that the hospital would have stopped them. Why didn't the father or the mother just go to Spain to raise the funds (I believe they were going to sell a property there) and leave Ashya in the hospital with the remaining parent until they were ready to take him to Prague?

Too many unanswered questions to arrive at sensible conclusion.

As I said, I don't condone what the parents did.

The key for me is that the police overstepped the line. They have admitted that the parents have done nothing illegal so why issue arrest warrants ? It's a slippery slope when the police can arrest you even when they know you have done nothing wrong.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

Completely disagree. I don't condone what the parents did but it would appear the medical staff knew that the parents wanted alternative treatment and the hospital refused to give this alternative treatment. It's a fundamental right in this country to refuse treatment. For the police to have wasted so much time and effort, as well issue European Arrest Warrants for the parents for doing something that wasn't illegal is ridiculous.

It's a bit more complicated than that:
1. The hospital did not have the alternative treatment to give - it is not treatment that is easily or commonly available in this country.
2. It certainly does not seem clear that what the parents wanted was actually the right treatment, or would be appropriate.

In terms of the police and what they did, if the hospital highlighted the issue and registered it with the Police, it becomes a child protection issue and the police HAVE NO CHOICE but to do the thing properly - the safety of the Child was the thing of paramount importance.

If anything went wrong, is it a breakdown in communication between the hospital (doctors) and the parents, both of whom have the best interests of the child at heart. To assume anything different is in danger of being grossly cynical, and the whole case is extremely sad.

Anybody with any sense will have twigged right from the very beginning that there was some human heartache behind all this.

 

[KZNSeagull]

From the stories I have read about it, it is not clear what the arrest warrant is for - the BBC is reporting that officers from Hampshire are in Spain not to arrest them but to deal with technical aspects of the arrest warrant. The police have said that he was in "grave danger" - from what? The untreatable (on the NHS) brain tumour certainly, but from what else? And now he is on his own in a hospital whilst his parents appear in court!

What a strange and sad story - there must be more to it than has been reported.

 

[beorhthelm]

...
In terms of the police and what they did, if the hospital highlighted the issue and registered it with the Police, it becomes a child protection issue and the police HAVE NO CHOICE but to do the thing properly - the safety of the Child was the thing of paramount importance.

which was to issue a missing persons alert. not an arrest warrant, which they even acknowledged was only so they could have power to insist on talking to the parents once found. hundreds of children have been overlooked elsewhere for the sake of local sensitivities or masking targets, yet one middle class family with best care intended are in jail. really is buggered up state of affairs.

 

[surrey jim]

Completely disagree. I don't condone what the parents did but it would appear the medical staff knew that the parents wanted alternative treatment and the hospital refused to give this alternative treatment. It's a fundamental right in this country to refuse treatment. For the police to have wasted so much time and effort, as well issue European Arrest Warrants for the parents for doing something that wasn't illegal is ridiculous.

Have to admit that I have not followed the story too closely. From what I saw in the news they took the child without advising the hospital of their intentions. If a serouisly ill child dissapeared from hospital, I would expect the police to investigate where he was and ensure his welfare. I would add that now he has been located and confirmed that he is undergoing treatment in a Spanish hospital that the Police close their enquiry.

 

[father_and_son]

You make it sound like the hospital arbitrarily declined proton treatment. It is not available here and not expected to be ready until 2018. Patients deemed suitable for it are sent to the US at a cost of £90k per patient. There is a centre in Prague which I believe is where the family were eventually aiming to go. However, we don't know what they told the hospital before they took the child away. We don't know what the hospital had said about whether the child was even suitable for Proton therapy.

If the parents wanted treatment in Prague and were going to pay for it themselves, I can't see that the hospital would have stopped them. Why didn't the father or the mother just go to Spain to raise the funds (I believe they were going to sell a property there) and leave Ashya in the hospital with the remaining parent until they were ready to take him to Prague?

Too many unanswered questions to arrive at sensible conclusion.

This. Telling the hospital that you are paying for treatment in another country, discussing transfer arrangements and allowing the two sets of doctors to liaise and discuss the case.... fair enough.

But, what I've seen/read. They reportedly took the child without any of the above and without actually having the funds available (or indeed the treatment confirmed at their final destination - which wasn't Spain).

I think it is entirely appropriate that the protection of the child comes first and, as stated above, why would any reasonable parent not leave their child in the hands of medical staff while they make the necessary arrangements? Anything else strikes me as dangerously close to neglect (a court will decide which side of the line they are on), which is the stated offence for the arrest warrant.

I see nothing wrong in the actions of the hospital or the police (from the information I have seen).

 

[drew]

As I said, I don't condone what the parents did.

The key for me is that the police overstepped the line. They have admitted that the parents have done nothing illegal so why issue arrest warrants ? It's a slippery slope when the police can arrest you even when they know you have done nothing wrong.

Afraid I don't agree. The Police didn't know what the families intentions were until they had spoken with them. This was a child protection issue and the best interests of the child are what is most important, not the wishes of the parents. Not that those wishes aren't important, they just aren't the priority. What if you had a scenario where a hospital had a course of treatment planned and the parents just didn't want to subject the child to that, possibly through ignorance or even religious beliefs, and they chose to go a away and commit a suicide pact. Is that fair on a child that doesn't have a say in the matter?

 

[glasfryn]

and the police search of the grandmothers house?

 

[glasfryn]

Afraid I don't agree. The Police didn't know what the families intentions were until they had spoken with them. This was a child protection issue and the best interests of the child are what is most important, not the wishes of the parents. Not that those wishes aren't important, they just aren't the priority. What if you had a scenario where a hospital had a course of treatment planned and the parents just didn't want to subject the child to that, possibly through ignorance or even religious beliefs, and they chose to go a away and commit a suicide pact. Is that fair on a child that doesn't have a say in the matter?

it makes me wonder what all those 1400 children in Rotherham are thinking now

 

[Perfidious Albion]

I blame the medical authorities for making claims that the kid would die after 24 hours when his feeder battery ran out. That has now been shown to be a lie. Of course the Police pulled out the stops to find them , based on what the hospital said.
Since that has now been disproved I hope the Law in Spain & U K allows them to be on their way with God speed.

Sadly too many of us have experienced a similar arrogant attitude from hospital doctors in the NHS

 

[drew]

I blame the medical authorities for making claims that the kid would die after 24 hours when his feeder battery ran out. That has now been shown to be a lie. Of course the Police pulled out the stops to find them , based on what the hospital said.
Since that has now been disproved I hope the Law in Spain & U K allows them to be on their way with God speed.

Sadly too many of us have experienced a similar arrogant attitude from hospital doctors in the NHS

So you agree they should have just taken their kid from the hospital with no agreed care plan or agreement with the hospital in Prague to have, and pay for, the relevant treatment. What else should the hospital do. As for the allegation that he would die when his battery ran out, why is that a lie? Did the hospital know the family had a charger and/or all the necessary feed?

 

[cunning fergus]

Afraid I don't agree. The Police didn't know what the families intentions were until they had spoken with them. This was a child protection issue and the best interests of the child are what is most important, not the wishes of the parents. Not that those wishes aren't important, they just aren't the priority. What if you had a scenario where a hospital had a course of treatment planned and the parents just didn't want to subject the child to that, possibly through ignorance or even religious beliefs, and they chose to go a away and commit a suicide pact. Is that fair on a child that doesn't have a say in the matter?

Are you sure............you are chucking in some pretty random speculation.

This family were quite evidently completely dedicated to their sick child, and that would have been perfectly obvious from the basis of how Aysha was supported by them through his already long standing treatment by the relevant NHS oncologists/surgeons/management. There is no question that they were not dedicated parents.

Surely the fact that the family were seeking for an alternative NHS treatment for Aysha would have indicated they wanted him to survive (and recover) as oppose to put him out his misery? The NHS may well have compelling medical reasons which oppose the parents wishes and clearly Police may not have understood this dynamic when first approached by NHS management, however had they probed sufficiently into the background of the family and this case they would have realised this was about treatment and not "abuse" or "neglect".

After all the NHS and its motives should not be beyond reproach.............

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/9...-and-angry-by-the-Liverpool-Care-Pathway.html

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/mar/04/mid-staff-scandal-wrong-call-nhs-david-nicholson

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-24819973

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/suzanne-trask/nhs-cancer-treatment_b_4775147.html

http://nhap.org/nhs-england-undermining-radiotherapy-cancer-services/

 

[fat old seagull]

the police chief in Hampshire to Rotherham

he could have maybe saved 1400 children from abuse
I mean is this one of the OTT police searches ever

That is a consideration, providing of course we didn't need more prisons to house loving parents in.

 

[Norman Potting]

Simple -

1. Police act, roundly criticised and case analysed in minute detail to try and discredit them.
   
   
2. Police fail to act on what appears (usual caveat, don't know full facts) to be a real concern raised by a public body who one assumes knows the full details - see 1 above.