[Politics] Cost of Living Crisis

[cunning fergus]

How awful, I bet they are really regretting all the Billions of infrastructure spending from the EU now.

If the quid pro quo for the billions of euros of infrastructure is the interference of unelected foreign officials into the workings of a democratically elected Polish Govt, including €1m a day fines etc. then that’s a question only the poles can answer isn’t it?

https://www.euronews.com/2022/01/20...r-payment-of-daily-1-million-fine-source-says

Notwithstanding the views of the EU zealots that would happily sacrifice full national sovereignty for total absorption into a fully operational EU state, the larger mainstream view will always be about the extent of the limitations and restrictions of EU membership.

I would suggest many poles in the mainstream whilst recognising the benefits bought from the monies received from taxpayers of other EU countries may say the implications of unelected German officials like Van der Leyden tinkering into its internal affairs is a bridge too far?

If that’s what they want given their history good luck to them.

 

[cunning fergus]

I think the word to describe your state of mind is paranoia.

Sure, when I have rattled in over 13,000 messages like you have on here then I will gladly take lessons from you in Neuroscience.

 

[knocky1]

Interesting website, an earlier article seems to frame the poison.

https://notesfrompoland.com/2021/12...on-fuel-and-food-to-soften-blow-of-inflation/

Poland had to request from the EU Commission, (not the Parliament I note) permission to reduce some of its VAT rates to zero.

I’m sure if the EU commission recently approved that petition then all is well in EU law, however they could not do that arbitrarily like any other sovereign nation can.

Moreover, it’s a sorry state of affairs for a democratically elected Polish PM to go cap in hand to an unelected German official before they can set their own tax rates. I can imagine with Poland’s history that is really popular with their electorate.

Im bardziej to sie zmienia………as they would say in Poland (and France).

Can't they just put a finger up to the EU as they did with LGBT rights and banning abortion.

 

[Baldseagull]

If the quid pro quo for the billions of euros of infrastructure is the interference of unelected foreign officials into the workings of a democratically elected Polish Govt, including €1m a day fines etc. then that’s a question only the poles can answer isn’t it?

https://www.euronews.com/2022/01/20...r-payment-of-daily-1-million-fine-source-says

Notwithstanding the views of the EU zealots that would happily sacrifice full national sovereignty for total absorption into a fully operational EU state, the larger mainstream view will always be about the extent of the limitations and restrictions of EU membership.

I would suggest many poles in the mainstream whilst recognising the benefits bought from the monies received from taxpayers of other EU countries may say the implications of unelected German officials like Van der Leyden tinkering into its internal affairs is a bridge too far?

If that’s what they want given their history good luck to them.

The Nationalism that seems to be important to you, was a large part of the problem at the heart of Nazi Germany.
Try letting go of the belief that having to deal with an EU official that happens to be German, and getting what you wanted, is somehow worse than dealing with a Polish born EU official. Does it feel ok now?

 

[Baldseagull]

If the quid pro quo for the billions of euros of infrastructure is the interference of unelected foreign officials into the workings of a democratically elected Polish Govt, including €1m a day fines etc. then that’s a question only the poles can answer isn’t it?

https://www.euronews.com/2022/01/20...r-payment-of-daily-1-million-fine-source-says

Notwithstanding the views of the EU zealots that would happily sacrifice full national sovereignty for total absorption into a fully operational EU state, the larger mainstream view will always be about the extent of the limitations and restrictions of EU membership.

I would suggest many poles in the mainstream whilst recognising the benefits bought from the monies received from taxpayers of other EU countries may say the implications of unelected German officials like Van der Leyden tinkering into its internal affairs is a bridge too far?

If that’s what they want given their history good luck to them.

Any Treaty, or trade deal any sovereign nation signs, limits it's ability to change certain laws or practices for itself without some sort of penalty. The treaties signed up to on joining the EU go further than most, but the benefits massively outweigh all others. EU rules on VAT, are evolving, and the flexibility to set zero rates in some areas is expected to come in, something UK argued for. Yes the EU is slow in changing, but this can also be one of the benefits, in that when the rules are set, there is confidence that they will not change suddenly and change the business environment.

 

[Wardy's twin]

Lot of people on here have blamed religion for bringing about war but it its small league stuff when compared to nationalism ....

 

[birthofanorange]

Couldn’t agree more, we have left and the war should be over.

It’s not though, like this thread proves, we have fanatical Japanese style Herberts holed up in the long grass resplendent in their piss stained fatigues still pining to be part of the wider lebensraum.

I think the last one was finally wrinkled out in 1970, so on that basis I won’t expect their Banzai charges to stop till circa 2041.

Does that tie-in with the date of the first Brexit benefit being seen? If so, I cant wait. No, seriously, I probably can't.

 

[Wardy's twin]

Does the concept of an a insular nation state (and a small one at that with few natural resources) actually work in the modern global world . Russia has us over a gas pipe and Saudi has us over a barrel and Amazon has turned us from nation of shopkeepers to online consumers building up wealth in other part of the world. Our future is at the whim of Russia, China & USA and our closest real allies (because they are in the same position) are or should be France & Germany backed up by other Western democracies.

 

[cunning fergus]

Lot of people on here have blamed religion for bringing about war but it its small league stuff when compared to nationalism ....

Interesting, we should add “collectivisation under communism” into the mix there too; in Russia and China alone deaths mainly through famine caused by collectivisation initiatives would be on its way towards total deaths in WW2.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Leap_Forward

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collectivization_in_the_Soviet_Union

Those were the days when a famine was a famine………no one blamed climate change in those days.

 

[zefarelly]

Does the concept of an a insular nation state (and a small one at that with few natural resources) actually work in the modern global world . Russia has us over a gas pipe and Saudi has us over a barrel and Amazon has turned us from nation of shopkeepers to online consumers building up wealth in other part of the world. Our future is at the whim of Russia, China & USA and our closest real allies (because they are in the same position) are or should be France & Germany backed up by other Western democracies.

Going well so far isn't it.

 

[cunning fergus]

The Nationalism that seems to be important to you, was a large part of the problem at the heart of Nazi Germany.
Try letting go of the belief that having to deal with an EU official that happens to be German, and getting what you wanted, is somehow worse than dealing with a Polish born EU official. Does it feel ok now?

Yeah, because the desire to be able to elect representatives to sovereign and accountable power in this country, with the unencumbered ability to set laws and taxes is clearly synonymous with supporters of the National Socialist German Workers Party.

Spare me another banzai charge please.

 

[KZNSeagull]

Does the concept of an a insular nation state (and a small one at that with few natural resources) actually work in the modern global world . Russia has us over a gas pipe and Saudi has us over a barrel and Amazon has turned us from nation of shopkeepers to online consumers building up wealth in other part of the world. Our future is at the whim of Russia, China & USA and our closest real allies (because they are in the same position) are or should be France & Germany backed up by other Western democracies.

We need 5/10/20/30/40/50 year plans which involve us moving eventually to renewables and other green energy but loses our reliance upon foreign oil and gas in the meantime. Lots of oil and gas in the North Sea apparently plus we have the option of nuclear. Short term though we have to have our own gas supply as consumer reliance on gas is not going to change in the short term. As for Amazon, other online suppliers are available.

 

[Baldseagull]

Yeah, because the desire to be able to elect representatives to sovereign and accountable power in this country, with the unencumbered ability to set laws and taxes is clearly synonymous with supporters of the National Socialist German Workers Party.

Spare me another banzai charge please.

It was you suggesting Polands history with Germany made dealing with a German EU official painful, if you were not referring to the history of the period of Nazi Germany, I apologise, if you were, get off your tiny high horse.

 

[A1X]

Lot of people on here have blamed religion for bringing about war but it its small league stuff when compared to nationalism ....

Certainly over the last 500 years or so

 

[birthofanorange]

Yeah, because the desire to be able to elect representatives to sovereign and accountable power in this country, with the unencumbered ability to set laws and taxes is clearly synonymous with supporters of the National Socialist German Workers Party.

Spare me another banzai charge please.

You do seem a little obsessed with Germans/Nazis, and now you're throwing 'banzai' into the mix.
Is something troubling you?

 

[Wardy's twin]

We need 5/10/20/30/40/50 year plans which involve us moving eventually to renewables and other green energy but loses our reliance upon foreign oil and gas in the meantime. Lots of oil and gas in the North Sea apparently plus we have the option of nuclear. Short term though we have to have our own gas supply as consumer reliance on gas is not going to change in the short term. As for Amazon, other online suppliers are available.

which involve us moving eventually to renewables and other green energy but loses our reliance upon foreign oil and gas in the meantime. totally agree

Short term though we have to have our own gas supply as consumer reliance on gas is not going to change in the short term - agreed but the situation is not new e.g. 1973 oil crisis but FA has been done about it at a strategic level as we drive for cheaper fossil fuels which make us more exposed to risk.

As for Amazon, other online suppliers are available. - agreed but this and ali baba continue to grow enormously

 

[Wardy's twin]

Interesting, we should add “collectivisation under communism” into the mix there too; in Russia and China alone deaths mainly through famine caused by collectivisation initiatives would be on its way towards total deaths in WW2.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Leap_Forward

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collectivization_in_the_Soviet_Union

Those were the days when a famine was a famine………no one blamed climate change in those days.

Stalin & Mao were only communists as a route to get personal power which they then both greatly abused when they took power.

 

[WATFORD zero]

I wondered where this thread had been diverted off the topic of the developing cost of living crisis. It appears that ever since this post from someone who seems to think 'We' are still in the EU,

You said reduced, not removed. We can’t remove VAT in the EU. FACT.

So I understand, great news for Pension and Investment funds isn’t it?

was immediately proven to be complete and utter crap it seems to have descended into lots of posts of whataboutery. I believe the poster 'won', so maybe he needs to 'let go' and 'move on' and enjoy what he voted for

 

[Baldseagull]

Interesting, we should add “collectivisation under communism” into the mix there too; in Russia and China alone deaths mainly through famine caused by collectivisation initiatives would be on its way towards total deaths in WW2.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Leap_Forward

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collectivization_in_the_Soviet_Union

Those were the days when a famine was a famine………no one blamed climate change in those days.

Also from Wikipedia,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_famines_in_China

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_famine_of_1891–1892

Both areas that have suffered many times from terrible famines, through drought and exacerbated by ineptitude under more than one form of political ideology.

Food security is one area the EU is concerned with and takes seriously, agricultural policy for all it's failings does take this into account and trys to maintain the ability of Europe to feed itself. EU countries are vital for UK food security, we have less food security now as non members, as any pressure affecting supply could see the EU restricting exports to non EU states.

It really is not as simple as you.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

Sure, when I have rattled in over 13,000 messages like you have on here then I will gladly take lessons from you in Neuroscience.

I fail to see what the number of posts has got to do with anything here.

And I am not and have never claimed to be a neuroscientist. It was a layman’s use of the term.

Methinks cunning fergus doth protest too much….. to misquote Shakespeare. Don’t take it so seriously.