[Finance] Consumer rights

[LockStock]

Hi all

I’m hoping someone can help or point me in the right direction.

My small company fitted a product for a customer 4 years ago, we supplied the product which is now faulty.

The manufacturer gives a 10 year parts only warranty and they have agreed for a replacement product. The customer is now using various sections of the consumer rights act to claim we should carry out the labour to replace it free of charge.

Usually we would look to find a fair compromise but the customer was so difficult at the time I’m very reluctant to do this.

Does he have a case and if so where could he take it from here.

 

[Creaky]

Hi all

I’m hoping someone can help or point me in the right direction.

My small company fitted a product for a customer 4 years ago, we supplied the product which is now faulty.

The manufacturer gives a 10 year parts only warranty and they have agreed for a replacement product. The customer is now using various sections of the consumer rights act to claim we should carry out the labour to replace it free of charge.

Usually we would look to find a fair compromise but the customer was so difficult at the time I’m very reluctant to do this.

Does he have a case and if so where could he take it from here.

If the customer can show that the fault is not due to misuse or what could be considered fair wear an tear then if you supplied and filled the item within the last six years you are liable for the full cost of any repair.

I've been caught out in the past trying to fight such a claim and lost in the small claims court.

 

[LockStock]

If the customer can show that the fault is not due to misuse or what could be considered fair wear an tear then if you supplied and filled the item within the last six years you are liable for the full cost of any repair.

I've been caught out in the past trying to fight such a claim and lost in the small claims court.

Thank you, should it get as far as that would they likey just rule we have to do the work for free or would there be huge costs involved.

 

[Triggaaar]

Does he have a case and if so where could he take it from here.

Yes he does, but companies very rarely help consumers in any way after the first year. As Creaky says, the onus may be on him to prove the item had a fault from manufacturer, rather than suffered wear and tear. That's too much of a pain for most consumers, and if you offer something which won't cost you much, he might accept it rather than go to the trouble of fighting it.

 

[wolfie]

I think I'm right in saying that the onus is on the seller to prove that the fault was due to wear and tear.

 

[Creaky]

Thank you, should it get as far as that would they likey just rule we have to do the work for free or would there be huge costs involved.

Unless the customer has employed legal representation then the costs will be minimal. The problem you have is that you won't know until the case came to court. Personally I'd wait until the customer sent you a "letter before action" at which point you have a decision to make.

 

[LockStock]

In normal circumstances I’d be willing to help as the dispute is not worth the time or stress. However, the though of having to work for this person again is giving me sleepless nights.

Also, should the same thing occur again, am I back at square one?

 

[Bodian]

What's your deal / arrangement with the manufacturer of the product? Surely if they have supplied you with a faulty product (and by 'faulty' I mean one that goes wrong within their expected timescale - ie: the warranty), then they should be meeting your costs in having to re-fit their faulty product?

Section 23 Consumer Rights Act seems also to include stuff about proportionality, and other bits and bobs - which may help.

 

[Creaky]

I think I'm right in saying that the onus is on the seller to prove that the fault was due to wear and tear.

That's only true for the first six months following purchase. After that it's up to the consumer to show the fault isn't due to fair wear and tear or is due to a manufacturing fault.

If a customer gets stroppy and decides to go for it they can hire an "expert" to testify at which point costs start to outweigh the cost of most repairs.

 

[Bodian]

That's only true for the first six months following purchase. After that it's up to the consumer to show the fault isn't due to fair wear and tear or is due to a manufacturing fault.

If a customer gets stroppy and decides to go for it they can hire an "expert" to testify at which point costs start to outweigh the cost of most repairs.

If the warranty is for 10 years, doesn't that imply that the manufacturer is reckoning that 10 years 'wear and tear' shouldn't render the item unusable. And therefore if the customer hasn't been misusing the item, or overusing it - then wear and tear should not have lead to it failing, and is therefore not an excuse? And anyhow - the manufacturer in this instance has agreed to validate the warranty and provide a new product, so I'm guessing they are happy that it shouldn't have failed yet.

 

[Creaky]

In normal circumstances I’d be willing to help as the dispute is not worth the time or stress. However, the though of having to work for this person again is giving me sleepless nights.

Also, should the same thing occur again, am I back at square one?

I don't know what trade you are in or the product in question but do you not have contacts or a colleague you could pay to carry out the repair for you?

 

[Zeberdi]

If you supplied and fitted the product, the contract for the purchase of the product is between you and the manufacturer - your customer doesn’t come into the equation for a claim against the Manufacturer. There is a separate contract between you and the customer which is governed by the implied terms under the Sale of Goods and Services Act.

Your customer paid for a service under a contract of works to fit a working appliance - you can try and claim costs of labour back from the manufacturer yourself but I think you will find the small print will say the manufacturer is only liable for replacement of the faulty product, not for any losses arising from the fault.

If you really don’t want to do the work, I would suggest you refund the client for the original work, including the cost of the item and see if you can get a refund from the manufacturer for the product or sell it to cover your own costs. You will be out of pocket for the original labour costs but that would be your choice - the client might be willing to accept a small % share of your loss in that event which you could deduct from the refund to cover your admin/petrol costs etc but they are under no legal obligation to do so.

The Manufacturer has accepted their liability under the warranty. You cant just flout the Sale of Goods and Services legislation or contract law because you don’t like someone.

If the customer had purchased the product directly from the manufacturer and you only installed it, you would not be liable for the labour costs of fitting a replacement, the customer would be but that isn’t the case here …

Btw - the customer could argue that it broke down because it wasn’t installed properly so I wouldn’t go down the road of trying to blame the client for unusual wear and tear - it works both ways and will not get either of you anywhere!

 

[Creaky]

If the warranty is for 10 years, doesn't that imply that the manufacturer is reckoning that 10 years 'wear and tear' shouldn't render the item unusable. And therefore if the customer hasn't been misusing the item, or overusing it - then wear and tear should not have lead to it failing, and is therefore not an excuse? And anyhow - the manufacturer in this instance has agreed to validate the warranty and provide a new product, so I'm guessing they are happy that it shouldn't have failed yet.

That seems a fair assessment

 

[LockStock]

I may be completely wrong here, say I buy a car from a ‘dealer/trader’ (not the manufacturer) and then after 4 years a part breaks which is deemed a manufacturing error, I would not expect the ‘dealer/trader’ to rectify it. My understanding is that after the 12 month mandatory labour warranty is done, if there is a manufacturing defect then the onus is on them to repair in line with their T&Cs which is accepted as part of the purchase.

One of my concerns, say for arguments I fit the new product free of charge, does the 10 year warranty on the product start again as it is new, leaving me liable for as long as 14 years after the original job.

 

[Wrong-Direction]

I think as fitters we have to just suck it up and fit the new thing for free. No chance a manufacturer will pay labour costs and can see why a customer wouldn't.
I've always said a 12 month warranty on plumbing..

 

[Affy]

I’m afraid I don’t think you can refuse.

Consumer Rights Act 2015

An Act to amend the law relating to the rights of consumers and protection of their interests; to make provision about investigatory powers for enforcing the regulation of traders; to make provision about private actions in competition law and the Competition Appeal Tribunal; and for connected...

www.legislation.gov.uk

the pertinent points are:
2)If the consumer requires the trader to repair or replace the goods, the trader must—
(a)do so within a reasonable time and without significant inconvenience to the consumer, and
(b)bear any necessary costs incurred in doing so (including in particular the cost of any labour, materials or postage).

Despite being an arse, the customer hasn’t done anything wrong and has a faulty product which needs replacing (yes I do appreciate you have likely done nothing wrong too). As said above, you cpuld try and claim your costs back from the manufacturer.

in terms of new warranty, if the manufacturer is offering a new 10 year warranty then, if you install this again, you will be in the same position for the next decade too.

I agree with Zeberdi in that you may be best to refund the client the cost of the install so they can get someone else to fit it hence waiving your obligations going forward.

 

[Papak]

Is this B to B or B to C?

Roughly how much was the initial job worth and your estimate for the repair?

 

[OzMike]

I would just do it and put it down to experience, won't do your company any harm.
You could get a contractor to do it, get a warranty from them and put their invoice through your books.
You get a warranty and can claim back the full invoice through accounting.

 

[Wrong-Direction]

Unfortunately that 12 month warranty is only for the quality of your labour - you can’t limit another company’s warranty on their product - if you are installing a product that you have bought for the client that turns out to be faulty, you will be liable to reinstall the replacement for free as long as the supplier has agreed to replace it under the terms of their warranty - which could be longer than 12 months.

Traders buy parts and appliances at trade cost - they then get a margin of profit that is invariably not passed on to the customer when quoting for their work - that margin of cost is supposed to help offset the trader’s labour costs if the parts/appliance they purchased for their client subsequently developed a fault. Meanwhile the manufacturer prices their products accordingly to cover any losses that might occur from the replacement of faulty products.

Traders can also arrange indemnity insurance with their regular suppliers - I recall from my previous builders, they had an indemnity clause ( which I also received a copy of) attached to the contract of works they provided me with which they had with their suppliers that allowed them to claim the full costs of replacement works, including labour:

• Indemnities – since product liability claims can be brought by the end user of the product against one or more of a range of entities involved in the supply chain, indemnities in the contracts between the different supply chain participants can be used to ensure that liability for such claims rests with the entity responsible for the relevant defect. For example, the distributor of a product may wish to obtain an indemnity from the manufacturer to ensure that, should the distributor suffer a product liability claim as a result of a defect arising from the manufacturing process, it can back that liability off in full against the manufacturer. The manufacturer may want to negotiate any such indemnity to ensure that it covers only those matters giving rise to the defect for which the manufacturer is itself responsible;

I pass on my trade discounts to the customer so effectively shoot myself in the foot.

 

[The Antikythera Mechanism]

You need to amend your T&C’s to cover this eventuality in the future.