[Albion] Conclusions from the ESL fiasco .......

[GrizzlingGammon]

Firstly, even if it was only 2, how is that fair? That's not how football has ever worked, and is just a lighter version than the ESL proposed.

Secondly, if it is to start with 2, what about when it's pushed to 3, then 4, etc etc, to make sure the big clubs never miss out on the money that should always be rightfully there's? While I don't like to use 'thin end of the wedge' arguments when what's being proposed is reasonable, the fact is that it's not reasonable that there are 2 extra places for historically big clubs, and on top of that, it could be the thin end of the wedge. It shouldn't be allowed on the basis of 'oh well it's only 2'.

They are technically still offered on sporting merit. But over previous 5 years, not just the previous season. Unlike the ESL, no club will have a given right to be there.

 

[Triggaaar]

I agree. It is a bit shit.

But it is nowhere near the basis for outrage equivalent to that of the creation of the Pirate league.

No, agreed, it's nothing like as bad as that. Not even close really. But it's still not ok. Are we supposed to not care purely because we were threatened with much worse?

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

the associations hardly have any choice, UEFA rams through the changes or you cant compete in their tournament, etc. they are no better.

there was a non-meh reaction when first raised last year, its going to feck up the domestic schedules to squeeze in the extra games.

So there was a reaction but we have moved on?

I'm really confused now. Why was this issue raised on the ESL fiasco thread?

I really can't get overexcited about the fact that if we finish 5th in the EPL we may not qualify for the CL if our recent record isn't quite as good as, say, Borussia Dortmund's. We have the chance to do better the following year. Why is this relevant to a discussion about the pirate league, especially in a context of (I am guessing) the stupidity and fecklessness of the average NSC user, obsessed with the ESL and dumbly oblivious of the theft of all our hopes and dreams via other means.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

No, agreed, it's nothing like as bad as that. Not even close really. But it's still not ok. Are we supposed to not care purely because we were threatened with much worse?

Of course. Care. But you seemed to be implying that we had take our eye off the ball by being dustracted by all this ESL stuff. I don't see it like that at all. Never mind.

 

[Triggaaar]

They are technically still offered on sporting merit. But over previous 5 years, not just the previous season. Unlike the ESL, no club will have a given right to be there.

But the ESL was being offered on merit - ie, you did well in the past, so you're in (obviously Spurs were just included as a joke because one of the snake won a bet).

When a big team misses out, they can tweak that 5 years to 10 if necessary, and change it from 2 places to 3, then 4, then 8, to make sure those historically successful teams very rarely miss out.

If it's just me then I'll have to accept it's not (and won't become) the big deal I think it is.

 

[Triggaaar]

Of course. Care. But you seemed to be implying that we had take our eye off the ball by being dustracted by all this ESL stuff. I don't see it like that at all. Never mind.

If the ESL fiasco hadn't happened, and no one had thought this new proposal was unfair, then I guess I've misjudged it.

 

[GT49er]

I agree we should implement the German model but it's a non starter, no chance with a government which has corporate greed as a cornerstone principle

It's got nothing to do with the government's policies or preferences. These billionaires have lawyers - and moreover the kind of lawyers that would have had George Chauvin walking free right now, with a few million in his pocket in compensation for unlawful arrest if they'd been on the case. Ultimately it is the courts that will make any decisions, not governments (governments can make laws - but big money with big lawyers will get it declared unlawful if they really want to.

 

[GrizzlingGammon]

But the ESL was being offered on merit - ie, you did well in the past, so you're in (obviously Spurs were just included as a joke because one of the snake won a bet).

When a big team misses out, they can tweak that 5 years to 10 if necessary, and change it from 2 places to 3, then 4, then 8, to make sure those historically successful teams very rarely miss out.

If it's just me then I'll have to accept it's not (and won't become) the big deal I think it is.

The 12 teams in the ESL were not there on sporting merit. They were there based on potential financial worth. The ESL had no merit in any form. Permanent teams is completely to different to allowing two teams to enter the Champions League based on achievements over 5 years.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

The new CL rules are to allow clubs to enter based on the fact they've done well in the past (ie, not needing to finish top 4 etc). No one here seems to care about that. So much for outrage.

I’m outraged. Trouble is we need people that matter to share that feeling eg Carracher, Neville, Barber, Bloom, Parrish, Klopp, Guardiola, PL players etc etc

 

[Sorrel]

But the ESL was being offered on merit - ie, you did well in the past, so you're in (obviously Spurs were just included as a joke because one of the snake won a bet).

When a big team misses out, they can tweak that 5 years to 10 if necessary, and change it from 2 places to 3, then 4, then 8, to make sure those historically successful teams very rarely miss out.

If it's just me then I'll have to accept it's not (and won't become) the big deal I think it is.

It's not a huge deal on its own, but it's the start of a plan to let clubs finish lower in the league and still get in the premier tournament because of their history. It's for teams like Liverpool finishing 5th or 6th and then getting in CL anyway. I can't see any way in which it's a good precedent.

And you can see how it could be expanded to be "the teams in Europe with the best tournament pedigree automatically qualify each year". Which would mean the super league would be back, but within the CL format.

If the same thing were used for promotion to the PL in England people would complain.

 

[Juan Albion]

I conclude that with the penalty for withdrawing from the ESL being around £8m per club, someone has made £72m so far.

 

[Triggaaar]

It's not a huge deal on its own, but it's the start of a plan to let clubs finish lower in the league and still get in the premier tournament because of their history. It's for teams like Liverpool finishing 5th or 6th and then getting in CL anyway. I can't see any way in which it's a good precedent.

Agreed.

And you can see how it could be expanded to be "the teams in Europe with the best tournament pedigree automatically qualify each year". Which would mean the super league would be back, but within the CL format.

That's the thin end of the wedge I'm most concerned about.

Real Madrid are moaning about their losses, while paying Bale 600k a week, and signing up David Alaba. WTF? They should be laughed out of the room, and fined for their part in trying to destroy football at the same time. Yet these new rules are partly pandering to the big clubs like them.

If the same thing were used for promotion to the PL in England people would complain.

Agreed.

The basic structure of the existing CL seems good. Teams winning a weak domestic league have a few more matches to win to progress to the main group stage. If they really need more of the big teams in, I can understand the idea of a 5th teams in the top league or two is included. But what can't be right is idea that it depends what team that is. If they've achieved 5th in La Liga, the Prem, or whatever, then fair play - but not only if they did well in the past.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

If the ESL fiasco hadn't happened, and no one had thought this new proposal was unfair, then I guess I've misjudged it.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

The 12 teams in the ESL were not there on sporting merit. They were there based on potential financial worth. The ESL had no merit in any form. Permanent teams is completely to different to allowing two teams to enter the Champions League based on achievements over 5 years.

Indeed.

I think the other thing (CL revamp) needs a separate thread.....

 

[jimhigham]

Perez still lobbying hard for this. Real Madrid’s bankers must be really close to pulling the plug if he’s so desperate to run with this discredited, thoroughly despised scheme.

 

[Wozza]

I mean, good luck....

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Decent shout for banner of the year (come dine with me reference) at Arsenal demo.
I don’t seem to be able to copy and paste it

 

[Super Steve Earle]

My conclusion is that I hope The Greedy Six don't win another game till the end of the season.

 

[drew]

I mean, good luck....

View attachment 136088

Not a cat in hell's chance of that happening.

The 51 rule is a pipe dream in this country.

 

[Mr Putdown]

And here we go again, apparently a new European Super League is to be announced today.

https://www.caughtoffside.com/2022/03/03/new-european-super-league-launched-today/