- Thread starter
- #21
I wonder how many members of the 'Church of Climate Change' support the building of more nuclear power stations?
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Climategate
- Thread starter wellquickwoody
- Start date
- Jul 10, 2003
- 27,792
selfishness or stupidity ?
I can't imagine you being in any sort of position to benefit from climate change denial politically or financially, so am I safe to assume you are in the stupidity camp ?
coventrygull
the right one
I agree with you that flu is flu is flu and always has a level of fatality, but preventing BSE needed significant steps to be taken in meat production and preparation. (Steps that hadn't been taken when the politician in question decided to put his four year old into the front line)
I bet it was a special organic burger
For what it's worth, my view is...
I've seen An Inconvenient Truth and it left we with a couple of questions:
Temperature records from the ice cap go back 200,000 years and show a pretty consistent cycle, until recently when temperature, CO2, etc has shot up, and now the ice caps are disappearing.
1) With the earth being billions of years old, how reliable a sample is 200,000 years?
2) There's no data older than that because there was no ice 200,001 years ago. Why not? Is it not possible that there was no ice cap 200,001 year ago because it was too hot to exist. And given we have ice now, the temperature 200,001 years ago would have to be equivalent to now-ish. Can we really discount the idea that the cycle includes low oscillations for 200K years with either a spike in temperature, or perhaps a run of high oscillations?
Having said that, I'm not denying the climate is changing or earth is getting warmer. For me, the issue of climate change and global warming isn't about if it is really happening (it is), for me I question if we caused it or whether it is cyclical nature of the earth's environment.
As for action to counter it, I think it's about how it affects us, if we can reduce the negative impact it has on our lives, if we can slow it down to give us time to take further measures to lessen the impact and to develop a society that survives, and thrives, in the new climate.
I've seen An Inconvenient Truth and it left we with a couple of questions:
Temperature records from the ice cap go back 200,000 years and show a pretty consistent cycle, until recently when temperature, CO2, etc has shot up, and now the ice caps are disappearing.
1) With the earth being billions of years old, how reliable a sample is 200,000 years?
2) There's no data older than that because there was no ice 200,001 years ago. Why not? Is it not possible that there was no ice cap 200,001 year ago because it was too hot to exist. And given we have ice now, the temperature 200,001 years ago would have to be equivalent to now-ish. Can we really discount the idea that the cycle includes low oscillations for 200K years with either a spike in temperature, or perhaps a run of high oscillations?
Having said that, I'm not denying the climate is changing or earth is getting warmer. For me, the issue of climate change and global warming isn't about if it is really happening (it is), for me I question if we caused it or whether it is cyclical nature of the earth's environment.
As for action to counter it, I think it's about how it affects us, if we can reduce the negative impact it has on our lives, if we can slow it down to give us time to take further measures to lessen the impact and to develop a society that survives, and thrives, in the new climate.
coventrygull
the right one
Climate change denial. The PC buzz words are coming out already.
coventrygull
the right one
My Carbon Footprint is likely to be quite small.
I do not really use air travel, my use of my car is below average, I do appreciate our environment and would expect it to be taken care of above profit, however ....
I do not recycle, I think any global warming ( if any ) is cyclical and I think the politicians are using the myth to raise tax revenue and the green zealots are bullies.
I remember the cometh of the 'ice age' of the 70's where just as eminent scientist's told us of a future of ice bound sea's, but at least then politicians didn't highjack the debate and of course it didn't happen as it wont now.
My effort to prise a plastic bag from the checkout girl at Sainsbury's in the name of climate change, whilst they ship/fly cheap apples and tomoatoes from far flung countries all neatly wrapped in ermmmm yes plastic is laughable, whilst the green newbies buy a plastic bag 10 times thicker than mine but with the words 'LIFE' or 'WORLD' on it and pay for the privilege, thinking they are somehow climate aware is pathetic.
We are being taking for a ride and you are fooling for it.
I do not really use air travel, my use of my car is below average, I do appreciate our environment and would expect it to be taken care of above profit, however ....
I do not recycle, I think any global warming ( if any ) is cyclical and I think the politicians are using the myth to raise tax revenue and the green zealots are bullies.
I remember the cometh of the 'ice age' of the 70's where just as eminent scientist's told us of a future of ice bound sea's, but at least then politicians didn't highjack the debate and of course it didn't happen as it wont now.
My effort to prise a plastic bag from the checkout girl at Sainsbury's in the name of climate change, whilst they ship/fly cheap apples and tomoatoes from far flung countries all neatly wrapped in ermmmm yes plastic is laughable, whilst the green newbies buy a plastic bag 10 times thicker than mine but with the words 'LIFE' or 'WORLD' on it and pay for the privilege, thinking they are somehow climate aware is pathetic.
We are being taking for a ride and you are fooling for it.
- Thread starter
- #28
Excellent, at last someone gets the point I am making.
- Thread starter
- #29
Please clarify you point.
- Thread starter
- #30
Just bored of being told what I can and cannot think. Just so you understand the implications of that, I find you boring.
- Jul 10, 2003
- 27,792
Barrel of Fun
Abort, retry, fail
Whether or not you believe we are the root cause or a cause of the change in global temperatures, why would you not recycle? It is not even hard work.
Just put used materials in a box or bag. Put food waste in a composter if you have a garden and use a re-usable bag as opposed to binning upto 10 plastic bags a week.
Garry Nelson's Left Foot
Well-known member
Cov, do you see anything contradictory or strange in your first (quoted) statement and your response to the above post by Acker79?
I do not feel it is necessary and therefore hard work or not, it is my choice not to join this past time.
I have a neighbour who walks out of his 6 bedroom house, xmas fairy lights an all, down his heated driveway, past his, his wifes and two childrens car's, whilst doing more air miles than an average migrating goose, whilst proudly planting his 3 empty can's of bake beans and 2 plastic lucazade bottles very neatly for the £100,000 environment cart to pick up and deliver to some subsidised company, who's managing director can't believe his luck, I mean just think of the holidays he can have.
- Thread starter
- #35
Most eloquently put sir.
coventrygull
the right one
No mate. No one is saying that climate change is not happening. It is the cause that the argument is about. Because people question that cause. They are called climate change deniers.
If your point of view is 'I would rather go on holiday than think about future generations' then yes, tha is immoral. You also told a politician to f*** off because he suggested greatly increasing taxes on air travel.
beorhthelm
A. Virgo, Football Genius
- Jul 21, 2003
- 36,031
i think illustrates the perversion of the situation, with lots of lip service from the politians, rabid evangalism from the greens but nothing actually being done. My personal favorite is the proposal to legislate that electrical appliances must only fully power off, 500W plasma TV is fine, but we must outlaw the 0.5W when its on standby 
- Jul 10, 2003
- 27,792
Climate change is happening. The reasons can be debated at length but the change is happening. The people who 'deny climate change' (your term as my term 'climate change denial' is deemed pc ? ) either do not understand this or have something to gain by denying it. If you are in a position of political power or have major interests in oil or manufacturing etc, i can see you would have something to gain by denying that the climate is changing.
I am guessing that you are not a senior politician and you don't have major interests in the above. I may be wrong but i suspect not !
*edit* and seeing Cov's post - I thought Climate change deniers were extra thick tights.
Last edited:
Hunting 784561
New member
- Jul 8, 2003
- 3,651
Climate 'change' has always been with us - Roman Britons grew grapes in England in the 1st century, the Vikings settled and farmed Greenland in the 9th century, and there were ice fairs on the Thames in the 17th century.
Climate 'change' is undisputed, but there is still real doubt whether it is man made, or more likely just a part of the earth's natural warming and cooling cycle.
The jury is still very much out in the case of data-fiddling climate scientists, and the quasi evangelical environmental lobby.
New technology is the answer to this, and is obviously what will get us to where we need to be - not politicians setting the clock back 300 years to an agricultural past, and defintely not denying ordinairy working people the right to drive cars, or to take overseas holidays.
.
Climate 'change' is undisputed, but there is still real doubt whether it is man made, or more likely just a part of the earth's natural warming and cooling cycle.
The jury is still very much out in the case of data-fiddling climate scientists, and the quasi evangelical environmental lobby.
New technology is the answer to this, and is obviously what will get us to where we need to be - not politicians setting the clock back 300 years to an agricultural past, and defintely not denying ordinairy working people the right to drive cars, or to take overseas holidays.
.