[Misc] Christians seem to be really good people

[Insel affe]

Just joking.
There are some things we don't know. Is this the only universe or do multiverses exist? What is dark matter? etc.
I definitely believe that there is a spiritual message in the story of Adam and Eve. As to whether it is literally true or not, I don't know. It might be, but then again I am inclined to accept the theory of evolution because I can understand the logic behind it and it does make sense in my opinion. For example, there are mammals that live in the sea. What are they doing there? Well, since having lungs is a feature of living on the land, it is reasonable to think that they may have once lived on the land and gradually migrated to the sea. There are birds that live at the South Pole and swim, but can't fly. What's that all about? Well, I can go along with the idea that they probably once were able to fly. I believe God must have been involved, since I think abiogenesis is probably impossible without an intelligence behind it. The process of creation described in Genesis shows God commanding things to happen, and then they do. God said let there be light, and there was. Sounds a bit like the Big Bang. My personal feeling is that if evolution is how it happened then it is quite a groovy way of doing it. I used to be fascinated by dinosaurs as a kid, and used to enjoy embellishing the blood in on the dinosaurs in my dinosaur books with my red felt-tip pen, which now sounds a bit grim but I was about 5 at the time.


Pretty much. I mean, there may be aspects of God described in other religions that are correct, but basically I believe that the God of the universe has identified himself as the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.


If you want to be reconciled to God, you have to go through Jesus.
I'm not sure about the exact details of the consequences of rejecting Jesus, but I am sure that they will not be good.

Ok, honest answers even if over conflated on one and ambiguous on another, but that is your prerogative and I respect that,even if I do not agree or believe in them.
Thank you.

 

[Insel affe]

Fact is there are good christians and bad christians, good muslims and bad muslims, good hindus and bad hindus. My main concern is about the level of intelligence of anyone who honestly believes there is a god.

Fact is there are clever Christians and dumb Christians and clever Muslims and dumb Muslims, clever Hindus and dumb Hindus. My main concern is about the level of misogyny of anyone who honestly believes that god is a male.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Almost every Christian I've met seems to be a genuinely really good person. Like, ridiculously good - always wanting to do the right thing, and aspiring to be the best person they can be.

Not sure if it's just Christian values, or whether it's the belief that there is a God judging them for their actions, but either way for whatever reason they seem to be very good people... model citizens, almost.

Makes me wonder whether the demise of Christianity is a bad thing - and that atheism has resulted in selfishness and narcissism, where nothing matters but oneself.

Got about page 12 and then, as an atheist, got bored. But here's a few million Christians that don't believe in equality - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-65915272

 

[Bold Seagull]

If you want to be reconciled to God, you have to go through Jesus.
I'm not sure about the exact details of the consequences of rejecting Jesus, but I am sure that they will not be good.

He would surely forgive them?

Unless Jesus far from being charitable, kind and forgiving is actually revengeful and malevolent?

Making people fearful of dreadful consequences is not a great look for promoting forgiveness, kindness and love is it.

What kind of God would punish a person who may well have been good, kind and done charitable deeds all their lives, but decides not to believe or worship Jesus? Preaches love you say.

 

[Blues Guitarist]

There is broad agreement amongst physicists and cosmologists and other experts that the universe is fine-tuned for life to exist and flourish, the question is how or why?

You just need to look around you, look at the laws of the universe - the physics (the laws) that allow this reality to happen. The laws of chemistry that allow the universe to be utlitised in the most practical and important of ways - the biology that allows life to flourish. It is impeccably perfect, that no human being could come close to designing such a flawless set of rules.

One could argue that the fine-tuned universe is the result of an infinite number of failed universes, that nobody gets to exist in, and we are fortunate enough to find ourselves in this one... however could randomness in an infinite realm really achieve such perfection as this?

Of course a barely comprehendable conscious entity like a God isn't the only theory - but there is no denying that 'design' is one of the more plausible explanations for the perfection of this fine-tuned universe... if a God didn't design it, then what did?

This is nonsense, which you admit in your third paragraph. If the universe really is perfect, why is there cancer and war and Crystal Palace?

 

[Insel affe]

He would surely forgive them?

Unless Jesus far from being charitable, kind and forgiving is actually revengeful and malevolent?

Making people fearful of dreadful consequences is not a great look for promoting forgiveness, kindness and love is it.

What kind of God would punish a person who may well have been good, kind and done charitable deeds all their lives, but decides not to believe of worship Jesus? Preaches love you say.

Exactly, but he believes and that is his decision and prerogative.
My ol'gran used to say never argue with an idiot because they will always win, due their experience.
The same can be said about religion, you will never convince anyone either way if they are narrow minded.
I like to learn about others beliefs and find it fascinating that people do, much like people followed many dubious leaders throughout history.
How people can be manipulated is interesting, that they are willing to allow gaps to be filled in with falsehoods and guess work.
It must be so....
You will not change this persons point of view, and why should we but hey if they are happy and not harming anyone I guess let them crack on.

My main angst is the willingness for certain people to force their opinion on you, as the truth when it is....
At best twisted and embellished stories of a long dead religious leader, and worse all lies.

 

[BBassic]

This is nonsense, which you admit in your third paragraph. If the universe really is perfect, why is there cancer and war and Crystal Palace?

Bit unfair on cancer and war to be lumped in with Crystal Palace.

 

[kuzushi]

Fact is there are good christians and bad christians, good muslims and bad muslims, good hindus and bad hindus. My main concern is about the level of intelligence of anyone who honestly believes there is a god.

That's silly.
I could say I'm concerned about the level of intelligence of anyone who honestly doesn't believe in God, but I wouldn't because I know there are very clever atheists, just as there are very clever believers. Are you cleverer than this man for example?

Are you concerned about his intelligence?

or this man?

James Tour - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

James Mitchell Tour (born 1959) is an American chemist and nanotechnologist. He is a Professor of Chemistry, Professor of Materials Science and Nanoengineering, and Professor of Computer Science at Rice University in Houston, Texas. But he believes in God and in Jesus of Nazareth, so are you concerned about his intelligence?
I'd say that you probably don't need to be concerned about his intelligence, or anyone else's based on their belief or disbelief in God. Perhaps you might be concerned about the intelligence of someone who thinks there is a liink between intelligence and belief in God.

 

[Blues Guitarist]

I think it's obvious to everyone that Jesus is the way. Every religion respects him, as shown in the video I posted. Nearly everyone you talk to respects him, even if they are Muslim or Hindu or atheist. He's the only person who could unironically say, "I am the way, the truth and the life" and get away with it.

Let’s examine that claim.

Muslims think that Muhammad is the divinely inspired prophet who, as a result of conversations with the angel Gabriel, wrote the Quran and helped found Islam. Do you agree? No, if you did you’d be a Muslim, not a Christian.

Muslims think that Jesus was man who was a prophet. Do you agree? No. You think Jesus was god.

Muslims think that Jesus was a nice man. Do you agree? Yes! Somehow you think that is full validation of everything that you believe, despite thinking that Muslims are mostly wrong in their beliefs.

And the scary thing is that you can’t see how dishonest this position is.

 

[kuzushi]

Let’s examine that claim.

Muslims think that Muhammad is the divinely inspired prophet who, as a result of conversations with the angel Gabriel, wrote the Quran and helped found Islam. Do you agree? No, if you did you’d be a Muslim, not a Christian.

Muslims think that Jesus was man who was a prophet. Do you agree? No. You think Jesus was god.

Muslims think that Jesus was a nice man. Do you agree? Yes! Somehow you think that is full validation of everything that you believe, despite thinking that Muslims are mostly wrong in their beliefs.

And the scary thing is that you can’t see how dishonest this position is.

Yeah, you're right, they obviously haven't completely accepted the truth about Jesus, that's true, otherwise they'd be Christians, of course.
My assertion was to some extent ill-considered. But I do notice that pretty much everyone seems to recognise that there is something special about Jesus in a way that you don't see with anyone else. Like I said, no one else could get away with saying "I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the father except by me."

 

[Blues Guitarist]

But he believes in God and in Jesus of Nazareth…

Jesus was from Nazareth. But later his followers added a nativity story (actually, two inconsistent nativity stories), which had him born in Bethlehem to satisfy Old Testament prophecies. If he really had been born in Bethlehem, he would have been known as Jesus of Bethlehem, not Jesus of Nazareth.

 

[Triggaaar]

Look at China. There are a few churches allowed as long as they fall into Communist guidelines.
The underground churches are growing massively despite persecution, and pastors imprisoned.

But that's got nothing to do with Christians being persecuted more than other religious groups.

 

[Triggaaar]

But I do notice that pretty much everyone seems to recognise that there is something special about Jesus in a way that you don't see with anyone else. Like I said, no one else could get away with saying "I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the father except by me."

You say that no one else could get away with saying that, except Jesus - he didn't get away with it, he was crusified.

And Muslims probably don't believe that Jesus said it in the first place.

There's something special about a lot of people, but we don't claim they're the son of god.

 

[Blues Guitarist]

The process of creation described in Genesis shows God commanding things to happen, and then they do. God said let there be light, and there was. Sounds a bit like the Big Bang.

Have you actually read the creation stories in Genesis? It’s nonsense, and I’ll explain why.

Genesis chapters 1 and 2 tell two different, inconsistent, creation stories. Was god’s name Elohim or YHWH? It changes from chapter 1 to 2. Why? (Clue: Genesis is copied from two different creation myths.)

A day is a 24 hour period on Earth. Genesis talks about days, and is clear that day means a 24 hour day, not a longer period of time, as it specifically talks about the “morning and the evening” of each day. But the sun didn’t exist until day 4, so the term day had no meaning.

When god said “Let there be light”, who was he talking to? And who was there to hear him say it and write it down for posterity?

Genesis 1:29 says that god gave Adam and Eve “all the fruit trees for your food”. But when they ate the fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil he threw a wobbly.

Genesis 3:8 says that Adam and Eve “heard the Lord god walking about in the garden”. Wait a minute, a spaceless, timeless supernatural being making a noise walking in a garden?

I could give you other reasons why the creation story in Genesis is nonsense (like a talking serpent - do you believe that bit?), but I’ll wait to hear your thoughts on these first.

And as for your comment about the Big Bang being like god saying “let there be light”, more nonsense. The early universe was so dense there was no radiation for about 400,000 years. How can you possibly defend the creation stories in Genesis, while also saying that god caused the Big Bang? You’re basically disagreeing with yourself!

 

[Thunder Bolt]

But that's got nothing to do with Christians being persecuted more than other religious groups.

Are you sure? Have you got the numbers of imprisonment s, jobs lost, university rejections etc in China?

 

[Triggaaar]

Are you sure? Have you got the numbers of imprisonment s, jobs lost, university rejections etc in China?

I'm assuming by your flippant comment that you have? Let's have them then.

 

[Blues Guitarist]

You say that no one else could get away with saying that, except Jesus - he didn't get away with it, he was crusified.

And Muslims probably don't believe that Jesus said it in the first place.

There's something special about a lot of people, but we don't claim they're the son of god.

Jesus didn’t claim to be the son of god. Read Mark’s gospel from an original manuscript, not the version edited by 2nd century Christians. (Early manuscripts don’t have the term son of god in verse 1, and stop at the end of chapter 16 verse 8. The last seen of Jesus is dead on the cross - not such an inspirational story. )

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I'm assuming by your flippant comment that you have? Let's have them then.

It wasn’t flippant. I wouldn’t be flippant about people being starved to death in prison or other forms of daily discrimination. I was surprised by your claim to be honest.

 

[Triggaaar]

It wasn’t flippant. I wouldn’t be flippant about people being starved to death in prison or other forms of daily discrimination. I was surprised by your claim to be honest.

Eh? I'm not the one who made a claim. kuzushi claimed Chritians are the most persecuted group in the world, I said I'm not sure that's true, you replied with 'look at China' and I asked what that had to do with Christians being the most persecuted. If you're claiming that what happens in China somehow proves that Christians are the most persecuted group, then you should be providing the data - why should I be providing the numbers for something you are claiming?

Did you know that Christians are the most persecuted group in the world, it appears?

Mm, I'm not sure that's true. Those reports are from Christians....

Look at China. There are a few churches allowed as long as they fall into Communist guidelines.
The underground churches are growing massively despite persecution, and pastors imprisoned.

But that's got nothing to do with Christians being persecuted more than other religious groups.

Are you sure? Have you got the numbers of imprisonment s, jobs lost, university rejections etc in China?

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Eh? I'm not the one who made a claim. kuzushi claimed Chritians are the most persecuted group in the world, I said I'm not sure that's true, you replied with 'look at China' and I asked what that had to do with Christians being the most persecuted. If you're claiming that what happens in China somehow proves that Christians are the most persecuted group, then you should be providing the data - why should I be providing the numbers for something you are claiming?

Forget it.