Christian parents caught disowning and beating their son

[Surrey_Albion]

I cannot trust the judgment of people whos morality comes from their imaginary friend

 

[armchairclubber]

Clearly you do though, you argue the child provoked the reactions and in doing so you're attempting to shift blame for what happened over to the child.

Since you're interested, I'm somewhere in the region of an Apathetic agnostic.

You can keep twisting me as long as you like if it keeps you happy, it's getting a bit tedious now, but as an aside, do you think it fine and ok for a child (your quote not mine) to be living under their parents roof without their guidance or without giving respect to the parents ?

 

[French Seagull]

But, in the same breath, people are entitled to their views even if you don't agree with them. It's called free speech.

It wasn't all that long ago when the Christian Church forbade anyone who spoke out against it and their doctrines. They were labelled as heretics and were imprisoned or killed for their anti-Christian views. Even today, in Africa and the Middle-East, gay people are being imprisoned and executed because they dared to speak out or act against Christian or Muslim faith teachings.

And surely everyone would agree (in the UK & in most countries and even Worley in the USA) that this is wrong,

 

[pastafarian]

It always amazes me what atheists think Christians should believe,

why amazed?

 

[armchairclubber]

QUOTE=pastafarian;6543645]why amazed?[/QUOTE]

because if Christians believed what atheists thought they should believe they would be atheists, perhaps wrong choice of word.

 

[gregbrighton]

Sometimes it takes atheists to remind Christians how they should be behaving as Christians, particularly when they are not behaving particularly "Christ-like".

 

[hart's shirt]

I thought the video was fine until it got to the bit where 'homosexual practices is sinful'. I don't believe it is anymore a sin than heterosexual practices.

It was, and sadly still is, all too common for homosexual immorality to be viewed as somehow considerably worse than heterosexual immorality, especially by religious people. There's not some sort of sliding scale here that's dependent on specific gender combinations. I'm pretty sure Jesus wouldn't have made any distinction between the woman 'caught in sin' and a rent boy, for example.

Take this example from John 8 v3-11 where a woman was about to be publicly executed. Interestingly, it's the religious people of the day who were using her as a convenient vehicle for their own self-righteousness. It seems little has changed in 2000 years.

"The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group and said to Jesus, “Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?” They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him.
But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, “Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.” Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground.
At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. Jesus straightened up and asked her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?” “No one, sir,” she said. “Then neither do I condemn you,” Jesus declared. “Go now and leave your life of sin.”

The forgiveness was given freely and her life saved, however the need for a change of moral direction was also stressed. Too often Christians in particular fall into the trap of emphasizing the one at the expense of the other.

 

[pastafarian]

[/QUOTE]
because if Christians believed what atheists thought they should believe they would be atheists, perhaps wrong choice of word.[/QUOTE]

surely christians and atheists have access to the same sauce material.....ie the book.

all the rules and regulations are clearly laid out.

 

[Husty]

You can keep twisting me as long as you like if it keeps you happy, it's getting a bit tedious now, but as an aside, do you think it fine and ok for a child (your quote not mine) to be living under their parents roof without their guidance or without giving respect to the parents ?

If the parent is Mr Josef Fritzl then yes I do.

 

[hart's shirt]

Sometimes it takes atheists to remind Christians how they should be behaving as Christians, particularly when they are not behaving particularly "Christ-like".

Yes, I agree completely.

The thing that puts most people off Christianity is rarely Jesus himself, but mostly their experience of 'Christians'.

 

[gregbrighton]

"The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group and said to Jesus, “Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?” They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him.
But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, “Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.” Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground.
At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. Jesus straightened up and asked her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?” “No one, sir,” she said. “Then neither do I condemn you,” Jesus declared. “Go now and leave your life of sin.”

Whenever I see these sort of scenarios, it reminds me of this Monty Python sketch:

 

[Deadly Danson]

Whenever I see these sort of scenarios, it reminds me of this Monty Python sketch:

Never not funny. Classic scene from a brilliant film that punctures the pompous nonsense of organised religion and the need to believe in something/anything perfectly.

 

[Ferring Marine]

Mr and Mrs Challis have every right to beat young Ron

 

[The Mole]

It was, and sadly still is, all too common for homosexual immorality to be viewed as somehow considerably worse than heterosexual immorality, especially by religious people. There's not some sort of sliding scale here that's dependent on specific gender combinations. I'm pretty sure Jesus wouldn't have made any distinction between the woman 'caught in sin' and a rent boy, for example.

Take this example from John 8 v3-11 where a woman was about to be publicly executed. Interestingly, it's the religious people of the day who were using her as a convenient vehicle for their own self-righteousness. It seems little has changed in 2000 years.

"The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group and said to Jesus, “Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?” They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him.
But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, “Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.” Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground.
At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. Jesus straightened up and asked her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?” “No one, sir,” she said. “Then neither do I condemn you,” Jesus declared. “Go now and leave your life of sin.”

The forgiveness was given freely and her life saved, however the need for a change of moral direction was also stressed. Too often Christians in particular fall into the trap of emphasizing the one at the expense of the other.

A great story - I love the parable of the Good Samaritan too - it works on so many levels. Even as a non-Christian I can admire the morals of Christ. However where it breaks down for me is the way Christians take bits of the Bible (usually the Old Testament) to support their own prejudices.

 

[hart's shirt]

A great story - I love the parable of the Good Samaritan too - it works on so many levels. Even as a non-Christian I can admire the morals of Christ. However where it breaks down for me is the way Christians take bits of the Bible (usually the Old Testament) to support their own prejudices.

Good call on the parable - another attack on the religious rulers of the day. The 2 guys, the Priest and the Levite, who saw the man lying on the side, but walked on by were both no doubt well-respected, religious men on the surface, but they ultimately didn't want to get their hands dirty, even with one of their own. The guy from Samaria could've easily done the same and had every reason; Samaritans had intermarried with non-Jews, and they were therefore looked down on by pious Jews who saw them as the underclass and of less value.

The Samaritan in the story showed no prejudice and no animosity - he just saw a guy who'd been beaten up and needed medical and financial help. He went the extra mile to support him, even letting him ride his own animal when he had to presumably walk beside him as a consequence. Would we do the same? Would I?

In keeping with this, I'll share one of my favourite real-life stories from Dr Tony Campolo, an American pastor and sociologist:

"I was walking though O’Hare Airport in Chicago when I ran into Peter Arnett, a one-time broadcaster on the CNN Network.
We knew each other well and I called out, “Peter! Do you have any good stories to share with me?”
He knows that I am a preacher, and I let him know that I was running out of stories.
He said, “Yeah, I do! I was in the West Bank, gathering a story in a small town, when a bomb went off and it blew people all over the place.
Israeli troops moved in quickly and fenced off the whole area and wouldn’t let anybody in or out.
In the midst of these shocking circumstances, a man came running up to me with a bloody little girl and said, ‘Mister, she is going to die if I don’t get her to the hospital and the Israeli troops won’t let me out of here. You’re press, you can get through the lines.’”
Peter went on to say, “At great risk, I put the man and the little girl in the back seat of my car, covered them with a blanket and was able to get them through the checkpoint.
As I was hustling as fast as I could to the hospital in Tel Aviv, I could hear the man holding the little girl in his arms and crying and saying, ‘Could you go faster? Could you go faster? She’s going to die! She’s going to die! Please go faster!’
I kept going as fast as I could, but it seemed like forever before we got to the hospital.
We rushed into the emergency room where doctors took the child from us and took her in for care in the operating room.
The man and I sat on a bench, completely dissipated, drained of all energy.
Then the doctor came out of the room, looked at the man, and said, ‘I’m sorry. She’s gone.’
“The man started to cry,” Peter said.
“I put my arm around him and said, ‘I have no children. I can’t tell you what to do or what to feel. I don’t know what it’s like to lose a daughter.’
The man stood up and exclaimed, ‘Daughter? That Palestinian girl is not my daughter. I am an Israeli settler. She’s not my daughter!’
Then the man stopped and said, ‘But maybe the time has come for us to treat every child, whether that child is Israeli or Arab, as a son or a daughter.’”

 

[drew]

It always amazes me what atheists think Christians should believe, but yes I think I can vouch for the fact that Christians believe that God loves everyone.

Why is it then that he loves some more than others?

You can keep twisting me as long as you like if it keeps you happy, it's getting a bit tedious now, but as an aside, do you think it fine and ok for a child (your quote not mine) to be living under their parents roof without their guidance or without giving respect to the parents ?

He is gay so what is he to do? Should he lie about it to his parents as they seem to be clearly homophobes. Their 'guidance' would appear to be along the lines of you should be homophobe and probably any other prejudice you can think of!

It was, and sadly still is, all too common for homosexual immorality to be viewed as somehow considerably worse than heterosexual immorality, especially by religious people. There's not some sort of sliding scale here that's dependent on specific gender combinations. I'm pretty sure Jesus wouldn't have made any distinction between the woman 'caught in sin' and a rent boy, for example.

Take this example from John 8 v3-11 where a woman was about to be publicly executed. Interestingly, it's the religious people of the day who were using her as a convenient vehicle for their own self-righteousness. It seems little has changed in 2000 years.

"The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group and said to Jesus, “Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?” They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him.
But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, “Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.” Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground.
At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. Jesus straightened up and asked her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?” “No one, sir,” she said. “Then neither do I condemn you,” Jesus declared. “Go now and leave your life of sin.”

The forgiveness was given freely and her life saved, however the need for a change of moral direction was also stressed. Too often Christians in particular fall into the trap of emphasizing the one at the expense of the other.

Begs the question as to what happened to the man that she allegedly committed adultery with. It takes two but it appears only one was due to be stoned.

 

[gregbrighton]

The place of women in Jewish society at that time was very much different to modern-day western society. They had few rights and were basically treated as if they were chattels belonging to their husbands.

 

[hart's shirt]

Begs the question as to what happened to the man that she allegedly committed adultery with. It takes two but it appears only one was due to be stoned.

A good question indeed, Drew. It looks suspiciously like 2000 year old sexism. Here's the results of a little internet research:

‘If there is a man who commits adultery with another man’s wife, one who commits adultery with his friend’s wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10)

In this case:

They brought a woman whom they claim they “caught” in the act of adultery.
They only brought the woman to be tried and punished, not the man.
They were not seeking out justice, just trying to trick Jesus.
In order to uphold the Law of Moses, both participants were to be tried and put to death.
If Jesus would have condemned her to death, He would have broken the Law of Moses.
Jesus actually works according to the Law of Moses by not breaking it.
When Jesus asked, “he who is without sin...", they all left because they were all sinning in this specific situation by showing partiality as they did not bring the man to be tried as well.
Jesus took the Law of Moses one step further (He perfected It) by forgiving the woman - something that the Law could not do because it could only condemn.

 

[gregbrighton]

A very clever short-speech (listen all the way to the very end)

 

[gregbrighton]

Promoting parents to bully their gay children: