Chelsea in Paris

[34064 Fighter Command]

You are assuming he is being denied getting on the train because he was black. It could have been the simple reason , he wasn't Chelsea. Its not like they were waving on white people at the same time.[/QUOTE

He happened to be black.....if he wasn`t....NO STORY without filming NO STORY

If it were a Police Officer denying him entry to ensure crowd segregation then your arguement would be valid. But a Police Officer would wear a uniform wouldn't he?

One person cannot prevent another from carrying on their lawful business, and if the Black guy had a valid ticket, he is LAWFULLY ENTITLED to get on ANY train. EVEN one that is overcrowded.

Recently a bus company were fined for denying a disabled man entry to a bus because a mother wouldn't vacate the disabled space occupied by her pushchair. In that case it would have been sensible for the mother to fold up the pushchair, yet in this crazy world it is the bus company that get the blame, not the mother.

In this case it is reasonable to expect people on the train to move down the carriage to allow the guy on. Why did they not do so? Why push him off, why then exacerbate the situation, they could have just said ' sorry mate, no more room, it's full '. No-one would have called it. The guy getting on clearly thought it wasn't full, because he kept trying to get back on.

 

[Bombadier Botty]

there were probably less than 10 people chanting it

People get caught up in the moment and do stupid stuff and this is what happened here

Your first point - you have no idea how many.

Your second point - you state this as though it is a fact. Very strange of you don't you think? Saying 'and this is what happened here'

The best thing to come out of this is highlighting that racism is still alive and kicking in our society.

 

[Rodney Thomas]

Are they actually racist? Probably not! I expect half of them work with black people.

Almost as good as this:

https://twitter.com/hrtbps/status/461895111551762432

 

[The Merry Prankster]

We seem to have more apologists than the Chelsea board.

 

[soistes]

I am not defending anyone here, but think why has no one said, oh its a few that give Chelsea a bad name. They are not real supporters etc

On what basis do you suggest that they might not be "real" supporters? In the same way that there is strong evidence to suggest that the episode embodies racism, there is fairly strong prima facie evidence that the people in the video are pretty much "real" Chelsea supporters. In my book, a group of burly white men, with London accents, on a Paris metro, chanting Chelsea songs, shortly before a PSG-Chelsea match in the same city, are likely to be Chelsea supporters. The additional fact that they are likely to have spent significant amounts of money on tickets, getting to Paris etc suggests that they are fairly serious in their interest in being there -- on that basis, it seems reasonable to assume that they are "real" supporters. How much of a minority they are is hard to say -- who knows whether other, similar incidents took place but didn't happen to be videoed by a locally-based Brit who was embarrassed and shocked by what he saw?

 

[The Large One]

As I mentioned in a previous post the chanting is disgusting. It appeared to be from a different carriage and there were probably less than 10 people chanting it.

I am not defending anyone here, but think why has no one said, oh its a few that give Chelsea a bad name. They are not real supporters etc


The Chelsea fans on the train probably got caught up in the heat of the moment. (Doesn't make it right)

Do they regret it? I would hope so!

Are they actually racist? Probably not! I expect half of them work with black people.

People get caught up in the moment and do stupid stuff and this is what happened here

What heat of what moment? Riding on the Paris Metro suddenly turns you into a slavering racist?

The simple facts are they stopped a black fella getting on the train, and chanted that they liked being racist. Everything else on your part is conjecture, none of which has any meaning or value.

 

[soistes]

We seem to have more apologists than the Chelsea board.

We may well have more Chelsea fans than the Chelsea board....
What's perhaps more disappointing is that we have anyone at all who can look for excuses for this kind of thing: "not real fans", "only a small minority", "probably not actually racists", "we've all done similar things when drunk".

 

[Megazone]

expect half of them work with black people.

There's as much chance of them being from the Orkney isles. It's Chelsea.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

Is openly bragging that you're a racist a crime? It's stupid, it's also handy for the rest of us to know who the f*ckwits are but I'm wondering whether you could prosecute someone for that. I'm certainly not standing up for them, I don't like racism either - it's the right to free speech issue that I'm curious about. Surely someone has the right to say they are racist in a free country and we uphold the right of others to make pronouncements even if we vehemently disagree with them. "Je Suis Charlie" and all that.

By all means drop the full weight of the law on them for racial harrassment when they stopped that bloke from getting on the train but your point about bragging that you're a racist is completely different to making racist comments. I'm not sure it's a crime, I'm not sure we should be banning people for expressing views that are not criminal acts.

Buzzer, let me clarify then. I didn't say that bragging was a crime rather that we should all be morally appalled by it. My point about prosecuting relates to the broader issue about using what ever provision exists in French law so those morons can be prosecuted. (I didn't identify a specific crime as I am not an expert of French law) But the principle is clear: that if it's possible to prosecute them, say for racial harassment, then in my view that should happen.

 

[34064 Fighter Command]

Buzzer, let me clarify then. I didn't say that bragging was a crime rather that we should all be morally appalled by it. My point about prosecuting relates to the broader issue about using what ever provision exists in French law so those morons can be prosecuted. (I didn't identify a specific crime as I am not an expert of French law) But the principle is clear: that if it's possible to prosecute them, say for racial harassment, then in my view that should happen.

Even without the racist chant there's evidence to support a common assault charge, albeit a very minor one. If this was a teacher pushing a pupil at a school the teacher would be suspended. With the racist chant any competent prosecutor will have a field day..........

I was once pushed off a bus by a bus driver because it was full - even with legitimate reason to do so I felt incensed by the way I was treated. There's no legitimacy I can see here.

 

[JCL666]

This just reinforces the stereotype other European countries have of us.

As for some of the comments on this thread................. Apologists for people acting like dickheads.

"We've all done some silly things when drunk".... Yeah I have, but they didn't involve singing about being a racist or being a dick to someone because of the colour of their skin.

 

[Buzzer]

Buzzer, let me clarify then. I didn't say that bragging was a crime rather that we should all be morally appalled by it. My point about prosecuting relates to the broader issue about using what ever provision exists in French law so those morons can be prosecuted. (I didn't identify a specific crime as I am not an expert of French law) But the principle is clear: that if it's possible to prosecute them, say for racial harassment, then in my view that should happen.

I misunderstood then, apologies. I notice someone has given me a thumbs down for my post too. Just to clarify for that person, I'm not apologising or mitigating any of what those Chelsea fans did. I thought that someone had meant that the Chelsea fans should be prosecuted for bragging about being racists. I was making the point that as far as I'm aware that's not a crime and admitting that you hold repugnant views shouldn't in itself be a criminal act. Stopping people from getting on trains because of their colour is clearly racial harassment as is making derogatory comments about someone's ethnicity and if you do that then you've broken the law and you've no-one to blame but yourself.

Edit - TWO people have now given me a thumbs down. I hope this post clarifies what I meant.

 

[Eeyore]

He could have got on the train, it was hardly a Falmer squeeze. And he did well to stand up to them for a while. It's easy to convince ourselves such problems belong in the eastern part of Europe. Sadly a change in the law and zero tolerance doesn't always change people.

 

[DavidRyder]

If that poor bloke's treatment was bad by being pushed off repeatedly, I can only imagine the abuse he would have got if they'd 'let' him on. He had a lucky escape. I'm sure he's getting on with his life and being a productive part of French society, whereas unfortunately those brain deads are probably back on British soil now.

 

[User removed 4]

As toe-curlingly embarrassing as this incident is:

1) Moronic racist behaviour must goes on like this every single day
2) Why on Earth are UEFA releasing a statement FFS? This isn't really a football issue. It's bunch of sad acts being unacceptably racist by not letting a black man on an underground train. Haven't UEFA got anything better to do?

I'm really glad I'm not a Chelsea fan though. These people are proper cringe.



Although...
you only ever starts threads on here with soppy anecdotal Daily Mail-esque articles about how minorities are being looked after over the poor downtrodden working class white. And then you see those working class whites acting like this and you act like apparently it's OK because they're not battering the black bloke.

It's not ok , I've never said that , it's cringe worthy , I'm just adding some context that's all , last year we all saw a white girl get beaten up on a night bus yet there were people on here breaking their necks to argue it wasn't a racist attack , I think the chelsea fan interviewed on ITV news wearing a red ski jacket (me) sums it up well !

 

[dazzer6666]

Utter scumbags. I suspect most will be STH at Chelsea (unlikely to be able to get tickets otherwise ?). Hope life bans and prosecution follow. As for some of the apologist posts on here words fail me.

 

[soistes]

I think the chelsea fan interviewed on ITV news wearing a red ski jacket (me) sums it up well !

Sorry ... does this mean that you are a red ski jacket, or a Chelsea fan? Either way, it explains a lot.

 

[daveinprague]

Chelsea fan 'explains racist act by Chelsea fans' ...must have been a funny interview.

 

[rippleman]

Surely nobody other than a racist would try to excuse racist behaviour?

 

[pb21]

Can you imagine the frothing at the mouth outrage of the 'I'm not racist but' crowd if it had been a white man trying to get on a train and a bunch of brown Muslims were preventing him from doing so!

Because it's the other way around though it's OK!