CHEAP red wine

[Superphil]

Try any of the supermarkets and buy when they have offers. You can usually get a £10 wine for a fiver!

What you have there is a £5 bottle of wine which they previously tried to rip people off by 'selling' it for £10.

If you want to drink good wine, priced appropriately, go to an independent wine shop, there's plenty about, or majestic at a push, and buy wine there. You might not get something for £5, but you'll get something for not a lot more, and it will be better than what you buy in a supermarket for the same price.

 

[smeg]

Thanks. If I decant them nobody will know

mmmm, I'm not so sure about that

 

[Machiavelli]

Bear in mind that a £6 bottle of 14% red wine is worth exactly £3, as there is £3 tax and duty on that bottle. A £5 bottle is actually £2.17 worth of wine. As the old adage goes, you get what you pay for.

You're actually overestimating how much is spent on the actual product here. The big cost is on tax and duty, which amounts to a minimum of nearly £3 for any +10ABV wine. Then there's the cost of the bottle, label, stopper, capsule, outer packaging, etc. On top of that there's margins that go to distributors and (especially) retailers. This means that the actual money spent on the product of a £5 bottle is probably nearer £1.
This is the key bit of information to factor in when buying wine in the UK, and it means that the best value is really in the £7-£15 price range. Once you go above that price, you're paying for scarcity, status, regional differences, variety and novelty, and so on.

 

[Machiavelli]

Try any of the supermarkets and buy when they have offers. You can usually get a £10 wine for a fiver!

Avoid these offers like the plague. The wine you buy will probably be worth less than £5. Apart from on champagne at key moments (Xmas, Valentines, etc), the only offers worth buying in supermarket is those wines that are on reduced to clear, or when they offer an amount -- currently usually 25% -- off their entire range.

 

[Superphil]

You're actually overestimating how much is spent on the actual product here. The big cost is on tax and duty, which amounts to a minimum of nearly £3 for any +10ABV wine. Then there's the cost of the bottle, label, stopper, capsule, outer packaging, etc. On top of that there's margins that go to distributors and (especially) retailers. This means that the actual money spent on the product of a £5 bottle is probably nearer £1.
This is the key bit of information to factor in when buying wine in the UK, and it means that the best value is really in the £7-£15 price range. Once you go above that price, you're paying for scarcity, status, regional differences, variety and novelty, and so on.

My figures are based on using a UK Wine Tax calculator. The cost of the bottle, stopper, delivery etc is there regardless of whether it's a £5 bottle or a £10 bottle. the difference I was trying to show was that in a £5 bottle the wine (product) is worth a meagre £2.17, whereas a £10 bottle has £6.33 of wine in it.

You're right, the actual fluid in the bottle ammounts to probably around £1, maybe less, but the same goes with anything, the overheads to deliver the product to the consumer have to be factored in on anything you buy. Those costs are constant, regardless of the total price of the product, and should be reflected in the actual price of the product. If there were no tax at all on the product, you would still have to pay for the shipping, bottling etc.

 

[Machiavelli]

My figures are based on using a UK Wine Tax calculator. The cost of the bottle, stopper, delivery etc is there regardless of whether it's a £5 bottle or a £10 bottle. the difference I was trying to show was that in a £5 bottle the wine (product) is worth a meagre £2.17, whereas a £10 bottle has £6.33 of wine in it.

You're right, the actual fluid in the bottle ammounts to probably around £1, maybe less, but the same goes with anything, the overheads to deliver the product to the consumer have to be factored in on anything you buy. Those costs are constant, regardless of the total price of the product, and should be reflected in the actual price of the product. If there were no tax at all on the product, you would still have to pay for the shipping, bottling etc.

We are agreement. What are you drinking tonight?

 

[Superphil]

We are agreement. What are you drinking tonight?

At the moment we're quite fans of the Averys Pioneer range, a really good friend of ours works there. Very partial to their Yara Valley 2007 Shiraz and their Mclaren Vale Shiraz. Tonight, if anything it will most likely be a Macon Villages white Burgundy (not red), though we tend to limit our wine drinking to the weekends.

 

[happypig]

Co-op Lime Tree Merlot. very drinkable

 

[Eggmundo]

Tesco Cuvee Prestige

 

[Triggaaar]

This is the key bit of information to factor in when buying wine in the UK, and it means that the best value is really in the £7-£15 price range.

While I get your point that a much higher percentage of that cost will go to the producer, it doesn't follow that it will always be better value. Sure, they have a lot more money to spend on making the wine good, but there are many other factors to take into account. Are they making more profit per bottle, are their extra expenses worthwhile (ie, do they contribute to a better taste) - and are the retailers here all making the same profit on each bottle? For example, petrol would fall into the same category as wine - a lot of it is tax, with little room for profit per litre, so are you getting inferior petrol from a supermarket forecourt? No, but they can supply their petrol at break-even, just to get you to the shop. They can do the same with wine too. Sure, a lot of the half price wine they have would never have been worth the full price, but that's not to say the sale price isn't a good deal.

The biggest point though, is taste. When it comes to value, if you like the taste of a £5 bottle as much as a £10 bottle, the amount that goes to the producer becomes irrelevant, the £5 bottle is better value. Sure you expect the more expensive bottles to taste nicer, but you have to try them. Some of the cheaper bottles are very nice.

 

[Machiavelli]

While I get your point that a much higher percentage of that cost will go to the producer, it doesn't follow that it will always be better value. Sure, they have a lot more money to spend on making the wine good, but there are many other factors to take into account. Are they making more profit per bottle, are their extra expenses worthwhile (ie, do they contribute to a better taste) - and are the retailers here all making the same profit on each bottle? For example, petrol would fall into the same category as wine - a lot of it is tax, with little room for profit per litre, so are you getting inferior petrol from a supermarket forecourt? No, but they can supply their petrol at break-even, just to get you to the shop. They can do the same with wine too. Sure, a lot of the half price wine they have would never have been worth the full price, but that's not to say the sale price isn't a good deal.

The biggest point though, is taste. When it comes to value, if you like the taste of a £5 bottle as much as a £10 bottle, the amount that goes to the producer becomes irrelevant, the £5 bottle is better value. Sure you expect the more expensive bottles to taste nicer, but you have to try them. Some of the cheaper bottles are very nice.

Not so sure that wine and petrol are analagous to one another.
What I do agree with, though, is that it's a good idea to become familiar with a range of price points if you can.

 

[Seagull58]

I started drinking red wine a few months ago. Was doing two to three bottles a day and it turned my shit totally black. Haven't drunk it since as I hear to much iron which is in red wine is bad for you.

Not if you have an iron deficiency. Then it's very good for you.

 

[Triggaaar]

Not so sure that wine and petrol are analagous to one another.

I guess you don't know my mum. She'll call me and ask me to go to Tesco in Shoreham, because they've got a deal on a nice wine. She'll go to a completely different supermarket (not Asda you understand, she's far too posh for that) to get a deal on wine, and then spend a load on their food.

What I do agree with, though, is that it's a good idea to become familiar with a range of price points if you can.

It's all about the taste. There's good reason why an £8 bottle could taste a lot better than a £5 bottle - but it just doesn't always work like that. Taste the wine and buy what you like at a good price.

I enjoy a bit of red wine, but I'm not the connoisseur that I'm sure many of NSC's finest are, so maybe my life is easier, as I enjoy a lot of the discounted wine I get. Rioja is my staple.

 

[Machiavelli]

Rioja is my staple.

If this is the case, read my comments in posts 7 and 24, which relate to one another, and to your staple.

 

[Triggaaar]

If this is the case, read my comments in posts 7 and 24, which relate to one another, and to your staple.

Yes, I can't remember having a Rioja I didn't like. I don't understand your point about supermarket deals though. Of course most of the sales in the UK are fake (think DFS). But I'm surprised if their half price £10 bottles are always worth less than £5.

 

[Normal Rob]

Casillero del Diablo is my favourite cheap supermarket red wine.

Although my typical rule for cheap supermarket red's is look for something from Chile, but avoid USA and South Africa. Not sure if that has any rationale, but Chilean cheap wines just seem to taste a lot nicer.

Agree with you about going for Chilean whilst avoiding the US. South African I've found ok, but never first choice.

 

[Machiavelli]

Yes, I can't remember having a Rioja I didn't like. I don't understand your point about supermarket deals though. Of course most of the sales in the UK are fake (think DFS). But I'm surprised if their half price £10 bottles are always worth less than £5.

I worked in an off licence/wine merchant for nearly seven years. I then was a journalist writing about drinks for a similar length. It's common knowledge among those in the wine trade and drinks industry that this is the case.
It's quite simple: we love a bargain; half-price wine or buy one get one free looks to most like a bargain; so supermarkets engineer an artificially high price for the length of time required by Trading Standards, while hiding the product from customers' view, so that they can present the wine as half-price or BOGOF.

 

[Triggaaar]

I worked in an off licence/wine merchant for nearly seven years. I then was a journalist writing about drinks for a similar length. It's common knowledge among those in the wine trade and drinks industry that this is the case.

I get that, but...

It's quite simple: we love a bargain; half-price wine or buy one get one free looks to most like a bargain; so supermarkets engineer an artificially high price for the length of time required by Trading Standards, while hiding the product from customers' view, so that they can present the wine as half-price or BOGOF.

Yes, we all know that. That's why I said most sales in the UK are fake, by using artificially high prices. DFS.

What that means, is that it's very unlikely that the wine you see at half price, is genuinely half the price it would normally sell for. But it doesn't mean, that it's worth less than it's sale price. I used to like a Tesco Vina Mara (if I've remembered the name correctly) Rioja Reserva, that was individually priced at £8, but available at £4 a bottle when you bought 6 or 12 (can't remember). Now it may not have been worth £8, but I thought it was worth more than £4.

 

[Gary Gurr]

Trouble with the supermarkets is a lot of the offer wine has been for sale at inflated prices before they discount it to make it look like a good deal.

I would certainly agree with that in the case of French wine which is overpriced wherever you buy it, the New World wines are a much better proposition.

 

[JCL - the new kid in town]

I would certainly agree with that in the case of French wine which is overpriced wherever you buy it, the New World wines are a much better proposition.

I have a French friend who is appalled at the price of French wine in this country