Charlie Hebdo - merged

[beorhthelm]

Rubbish. Communists killed many religious people who refused to adhere to their beliefs.

yes, maybe some who opposed communism. atheism is the absence of belief, you cant adhere to it.

 

[jay d]

I think first we need to find out who's funding them there weapons and put a stop to that as the first stage. Oh !

 

[vegster]

Have we reached a logical conclusion on a sensible solution yet gentlemen ? 15 pages, we must be getting close ?

 

[Gullys Cats]

The peaceful religion.

 

[Hugo Rune]

I'm genuinely shocked that it seems the three attackers got 88 miles away from Paris without being caught. Let's hope they are all stopped in Riems.

 

[Baldseagull]

Because no one else is involved in cases of rape are they ? You say masses, there has been a couple - again, i refer you to the 70s TV personalties and the Catholic Church - they have done that horrible stuff to kids as well.

Your Islamophobia is clear to see.

The religious beliefs, and the attitude towards non muslim women that taught them, was a factor in how they behaved, that is the difference. And there are more than a couple of these gangs.
Fear of being accused of racism or islamophobia or stirring up racial hatred is what allowed these twats to continue for so long.

 

[wellquickwoody]

Fear of being accused of racism or islamophobia or stirring up racial hatred is what allowed these twats to continue for so long.

And is continuing as I type this. We need to face up to the fact that we are at war with so called Islamic extremists, and not keep pandering to the misplaced goodwill of the apologists.

 

[Hastings gull]

http://www.isb.org.uk/violent-extremism-and-terrorism/


We have always had a clear and unequivocal stance against terrorism and those who advocate violence in our midst. Islam has never condoned the taking of life in this way. It is unislamic.
Terrorists at home or abroad, and their supporters in our midst, have a lot to answer for. They have taken the lives of innocents, they have spread mistrust and suspicion, given implicit support to the voices of Islamophobes and bigots, not to mention the financial cost of their acts.

We support measures to tackle, prevent and stop terrorism, but are also critical of some of the initiatives and approaches that have been undertaken in this regard. Terrorism inspired by al-Qaeda can be best defeated in Britain by engaging and winning the support of local Muslim communities to help squeeze out the voices of violence and hatred. This requires using sensitively thought out approaches, language and tactics and ensuring that the civil liberties of our nation are not trampled upon.

Yes indeed - they have spread mistrust, which is their aim. Indiscriminate terrorism is what they favour, as this tends to polarise opinions. If you had, say, a relative killed in a bombing attack by a politically motivated group, about which you had previously not given much thought to, you are far less likely at the very least to look at them with the same degree of tolerance that you previously had. This then breeds more hatred and encourages people to join equally fanatical groups on the "other side".

I support what you say in your final para, as the obvious solution to combat extremism, though this is somewhat idealistic, with respect, in that it only goes so far. I imagine that this is already happening, presumably with mixed results - how many hundreds do we hear are in Syria or wherever - but what do we do with those who are determined to reject our values, despite all well-intentioned counselling/begging/cajoling etc? And we must ask ourselves to what extent it is actually happening? We hear that Islam is a religion of peace/the majority reject extremism, but in all honesty, and with absolutely no axe to grind, I don't see so much evidence that this is necessarily true. Of course, if there are no mass demonstrations by muslims against extremism in the UK, that does not necessarily mean that they support it, I fully appreciate, and I am happy to accept a view that most folk are decent and moderate, but just would like to see unequivocal evidence that the muslim community en masse is aghast at what is done in their name. We hear influential muslim figures on TV saying "not in my name" very commendably, but really that tends to be it. By the way, I am more than happy to accept that I have the wrong impression - what do others think?

 

[JCL666]

I seriously wonder how many people here know people who are Muslim.

Idon't expect my Muslim friends to march or make public statements when shit like this happens. I didn't expect it of my Catholic friends when the IRA were bombing people either.

 

[Hastings gull]

I seriously wonder how many people here know people who are Muslim.

Idon't expect my Muslim friends to march or make public statements when shit like this happens. I didn't expect it of my Catholic friends when the IRA were bombing people either.

Thanks. I wonder just how many muslin friends you have -we could all say that that I know more than you and claim some high-ground! The muslim community is a minority in a Christian country (whatever that means, I know!) and somehow I would have expected rather more evidence of appreciation of british values from what I have seen and more of an attempt by, say, way of public statements that they unequivocally wish to distance themselves from extremism. Of course, I don't necessarily expect a huge demo every time an atrocity occurs either. As I say, it may well be the case that I simply have not heard loud denunciations of extremism.

 

[Springal]

I'm genuinely shocked that it seems the three attackers got 88 miles away from Paris without being caught. Let's hope they are all stopped in Riems.

Are you? The intelligence service have known about 2 of those since 2005ish I think I read. The guys shot were also under police protection, not that it did much good!

 

[BigGully]

These extremist fanatics are to religion what hooligans are to football. They do not represent the vast majority.

Ahhhh but in the 70's and 80's the majority of attending football fans engendered an environment which allowed violence and racism to grow and to some extent be accepted.

Our nearly hooligan free stadiums are now inhabited by a wholly different demographic of supporter, the state/police years ago stopped tolerating its predominately white working class football hooligan, you're right there are lessons to be learned.

Yours is a good example but I fear not for the reasons you posted.

 

[Mattywerewolf]

Thanks. I wonder just how many muslin friends you have -we could all say that that I know more than you and claim some high-ground! The muslim community is a minority in a Christian country (whatever that means, I know!) and somehow I would have expected rather more evidence of appreciation of british values from what I have seen and more of an attempt by, say, way of public statements that they unequivocally wish to distance themselves from extremism. Of course, I don't necessarily expect a huge demo every time an atrocity occurs either. As I say, it may well be the case that I simply have not heard loud denunciations of extremism.

Very clearly expressed last night on BBC News by top Muslim clerics. This is not a Muslim issue, this is an issue of some extremists that have chosen to associate themselves with the Muslim faith but do not represent the feelings, or beliefs of over 99% of the faith. Muslims are trying to deal with the issue but by thinking its a Muslim issue in isolation reduces the chances of dealing with it and leads to the marginalisation of a large number of law abiding, peaceful Muslims.

 

[fat old seagull]

Rubbish. Communists killed many religious people who refused to adhere to their beliefs.

Your reply to Beorhthelm's post suggests you believe Communism to be an atheist movement. It's perfectly acceptable to be a Communist and a Christian.


I'm neither incidently.

 

[Insel affe]

Are you? The intelligence service have known about 2 of those since 2005ish I think I read. The guys shot were also under police protection, not that it did much good!

My guess is this has been planned for a long time, and possible inside information was gained due to the fact the gunmen got everyone together at the meeting. The police protection was obviously not prepared for two/three trained gunmen in body Armour and Kalashnikov's. The level required to counter act the attack is just not sustainable over such a long period, they may have waited for a police change over, a coffee break by one the policemen so many scenarios.

 

[Springal]

My guess is this has been planned for a long time, and possible inside information was gained due to the fact the gunmen got everyone together at the meeting. The police protection was obviously not prepared for two/three trained gunmen in body Armour and Kalashnikov's. The level required to counter act the attack is just not sustainable over such a long period, they may have waited for a police change over, a coffee break by one the policemen so many scenarios.

Still baffling how known extremists can prepare and carry this out, especially if they are highly trained as you say

 

[narly101]

https://twitter.com/RLOppenheimer/status/552848047089405952

Nail on Head.

 

[BigGully]

I seriously wonder how many people here know people who are Muslim.

Idon't expect my Muslim friends to march or make public statements when shit like this happens. I didn't expect it of my Catholic friends when the IRA were bombing people either.

So basically you can distinguish 'communities' when they demand, want or deserve help, but then not when some are spawning people that perpertrate, support or empathise with such atrocitise.

For the record I had a couple of Irish Catholic friends in the early 80's and remarkably I could not expect them to march in protest when the IRA were bombing people as they undoubtedly had sympathy for those IRA actions.

 

[kevo]

My guess is this has been planned for a long time, and possible inside information was gained due to the fact the gunmen got everyone together at the meeting. The police protection was obviously not prepared for two/three trained gunmen in body Armour and Kalashnikov's. The level required to counter act the attack is just not sustainable over such a long period, they may have waited for a police change over, a coffee break by one the policemen so many scenarios.

It wasn't that well planned - they didn't even know where in the building the magazine's offices were.

May have just been a coincidence that the staff were all in a meeting.

 

[Insel affe]

https://twitter.com/RLOppenheimer/status/552848047089405952

Nail on Head.

Correct