Championship interest in Barnes: Are we missing something in marmite?

[keaton]

There is no question that CMS gives 100% every time he plays. I have, ever since he arrived, given him the benefit of the doubt: figuring that we never set up in a way that was going to bring out the best in him. However, now, nearly two seasons on I am having to accept that he is simply not a very good player at this level. In fact a bit rubbish. Sorry if that makes me a hater.

Isn't hein the top ten goalscorers in the Championship this season? Is 98% of the Championship not good enough for this level according to you?

 

[B.W.]

Derby can have him for a packet of crisps and a curly wurly.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Isn't hein the top ten goalscorers in the Championship this season? Is 98% of the Championship not good enough for this level according to you?

No, he's 11th.

 

[Curious Orange]

Anything north of Watford Horsham is 'up North'.

Corrected for you

 

[somerset]

I have, have you seen Stephen Hawking play centre half?

Tenuous EP,....very tenuous.

 

[brightonrock]

Aaahh,.... diddums, can you not cope with people having different opinions to you mate?..... perhaps it is you who has the proverbial Ostritch syndrome, and thus is actually the type that needs separating from those prepared to maturely debate an issue without simply throwing tantrums and abusing people.

Have you got a pair of pants on your head and a pencil up each nostril?

This was an extremely mature point of debate. Bravo, you eloquent sage.

 

[The Merry Prankster]

Isn't hein the top ten goalscorers in the Championship this season? Is 98% of the Championship not good enough for this level according to you?

No, it's not. He's 11th. Teams who's leading scorer and (for the most part) main and sole striker ends up 11th top scorer do not get promoted. Cue statto who proves it happens all the time.

 

[keaton]

No, it's not. He's 11th. Teams who's leading scorer and (for the most part) main and sole striker ends up 11th top scorer do not get promoted. Cue statto who proves it happens all the time.

It would suggest there's only ten better goalscorers than him at the moment. Which to me doesn't indicated him being not very good at this level

 

[Deano's Invisible Pants]

Why is it that discussions about CMS and Barnes are so polarised? Can't we just agree that both of them are 'decent' at Championship level and would probably get into at least many championship sides as would exclude them. On the other hand, neither of them are good enough for the Premier League, and neither of them, arguably, are as prolific as a manager would ideally look for in a team with promotion-winning ambitions.

Although they are different, I would put them very much on a par. Of the two, I would say that Barnes typically exceeds relatively modest expectations, while CMS often fails to match expectations that are sky high because he cost us £2.5m+ and had a track record of being prolific (albeit in League 1).

 

[JBizzle]

Why is it that discussions about CMS and Barnes are so polarised? Can't we just agree that both of them are 'decent' at Championship level and would probably get into at least many championship sides as would exclude them. On the other hand, neither of them are good enough for the Premier League, and neither of them, arguably, are as prolific as a manager would ideally look for in a team with promotion-winning ambitions.

Although they are different, I would put them very much on a par. Of the two, I would say that Barnes typically exceeds relatively modest expectations, while CMS often fails to match expectations that are sky high because he cost us £2.5m+ and had a track record of being prolific (albeit in League 1).

There's no place for sensible comments like that around these parts...

 

[fratsomrover]

Why is it that discussions about CMS and Barnes are so polarised? Can't we just agree that both of them are 'decent' at Championship level and would probably get into at least many championship sides as would exclude them. On the other hand, neither of them are good enough for the Premier League, and neither of them, arguably, are as prolific as a manager would ideally look for in a team with promotion-winning ambitions.

Although they are different, I would put them very much on a par. Of the two, I would say that Barnes typically exceeds relatively modest expectations, while CMS often fails to match expectations that are sky high because he cost us £2.5m+ and had a track record of being prolific (albeit in League 1).

Very well put. Not a lot between either of them. Both adept at being knocked down by opponents, both have poor first touch and both struggling to make at impact at this level. Would be a knock-out at say Crawley or MK Dons but wont cut the mustard at this level or in The Prem. Never fully understood why they get this false status. A bit like Crumplin and Peter Smith of old. Try hard but to little effect and quite embarrassing at times.

 

[GOM]

Gus Likes him, other teams rate him, wonder who is missing something?

 

[somerset]

This was an extremely mature point of debate. Bravo, you eloquent sage.

You see what some of you are doing to me on this Barnes issue, I am now offering TV comedy quotes in exasperation, Christ I will be reading the Sun or Mirror next, and posting threads about dumping in the shower..... sheesh.

 

[mejonaNO12 aka riskit]

It's not a suprise in the slightest that other teams would want him. He does things that managers notice, and not the average fickle fan.

Hull City were the epitome of a team with no stellar individuals. Not once did I spot an individual do anything brilliant on their team, yet I could COMPLTELY see how they are doing well this season. Players were doing jobs beyond the normal remit of their position.

Barnes does this for us. However heading away corners and tracking his man isn't anywhere NEAR sexy enough for many fans from what is, technically, a 'striker'.

 

[mejonaNO12 aka riskit]

No, it's not. He's 11th. Teams who's leading scorer and (for the most part) main and sole striker ends up 11th top scorer do not get promoted. Cue statto who proves it happens all the time.

Cardiff's current top goalscorer has 7 league goals. He is the 25th highest scorer in the league.

Just as an example. Ashley Barnes, who plays in midfield and is "useless" has 6 goals.

 

[Greg Bobkin]

Very well put. Not a lot between either of them. Both adept at being knocked down by opponents, both have poor first touch and both struggling to make at impact at this level. Would be a knock-out at say Crawley or MK Dons but wont cut the mustard at this level or in The Prem. Never fully understood why they get this false status. A bit like Crumplin and Peter Smith of old. Try hard but to little effect and quite embarrassing at times.

Yeah, because Barnes had an absolute SHOCKER against Arsenal, of the PREMIER LEAGUE. Oh, hang on a moment, let's have a look at those player ratings:

Barnes 8.61
Bridcutt 8.47
Ulloa 8.23 (76mins)
Calderon 7.59
David Lopez 7.59
El Abd 7.08
Hammond 7.08
Bridge 7.04
Greer 6.57 (37mins)
Buckley 6.56 (48mins)
Ankergren 5.05



Oh.

 

[JBizzle]

The problem with Ashley Barnes is two-fold:

1) A lot of what he does is "spade-work" tracking back and allowing Bruno or Bridge ot overlap, dropping deep to help the midfield of defence, clearing headers and winning freekicks (getting criticism for winning them the EXACT same way Murray got credit for...) which isn't "flair". He just gets his head down and works his socks off game after game;

2) Sometimes he plays when he is out of form (not because he holds a gun to Gus' head, but because of what he adds defensively). He tends to take the flak for the fact Gus likes so play it safe sometimes and rather than play Lua Lua (wildly inconsistent) or Buckley (glass hamstrings) goes for the safer ore solid option of Barnes.

Sure, he hasn't helped himself with the sending off at Sheffield Wednesday but he got more flak for that that Greer did for a forearm smash (pre-meditated on his debut for us) or Dunk (wretched control and bad decision-making that cost us at Palace). People make mistakes, people do have that red mist descend sometimes, it doesn't automatically hit the reset button to send him back to square one unless you actively want to criticise someone. He was exceptional against Arsenal and very good in the preceding games, to write all of those off over a silly moment would be ridiculous.

Temperament is often what makes a player: Rooney is a nutter, Roy Keane ended a players career out of malice, Greer is a nasty piece of work on the pitch too. Sometimes you have to make allowances because although their temperament can let people down, it's also an asset which makes them a better player. I'd say it's also his slightly arsey temperament that's resulted in him routinely make his critics looks like fools.

 

[portslade seagull]

Barnes is better than CMS and cost a mere fraction

 

[brightonrock]

You see what some of you are doing to me on this Barnes issue, I am now offering TV comedy quotes in exasperation, Christ I will be reading the Sun or Mirror next, and posting threads about dumping in the shower..... sheesh.

My point was more that you seem happy to belittle, condascend and insult those that defend barnes, on the grounds that they don't know what they're talking about, yet you get huffy if someone has a pop at you and claim you're entitled to your opposite view. Well surely so are those who see what he brings to the team? The reality is that you aren't an impartial observer - you've made your mind up about barnes, so there's no point in discussing it - but perhaps if you feel others aren't "maturely debating the matter" you might have a glance around your glass house, before you throw stones.

 

[B.W.]

Gus Likes him, other teams rate him, wonder who is missing something?

Gus and alleged other teams