[Football] Champions League Final

[Milano]

For 85 minutes that game was DULL. Then Inter had a go and should have equalised, although I was pleased to be spared an extra 30 minutes of that but it would have been funny.

If there is a worse ‘value’ striker in Europe than Lukaku then I’ve not seen him. Makes Locadia look like a reasonable value for money signing……

The whole thing is meaningless, City are meaningless. Sooner or later they were bound to win it. Big deal.

 

[Sepulveda]

City fans need to watch videos of how Napoli fans celebrated winning Serie A this year.In comparison you wouldn't think City had just won their first ever CL.

Neapolitans are an extreme case though, they exaggerate in the other direction. Still remember the full night of fireworks and partying they had just before bottling their last league games and gifting us the title some years ago. Let them celebrate as much as they feel like it, there's no rules on the matter

 

[kevo]

Let me explain how it works: first you have to qualify.
We can do that by finishing in the top 4. We would have done that this season were it not for some terrible refereeing/VAR decisions, and losing to Everton and Forest.I

I do agree with this. I am irritated we are only in the Europa.

I would say we were the third best team last season (or maybe equal third with Newcastle). VAR arguably cost us 8+ points and then there were the annoying games we dominated but somehow didn't win (Forest and Fulham at home, for example).

Can't help thinking last season was our big chance. Ali Mac gone, Cacideo to follow, Europa games on top of the EPL - I think it will be near to impossible for us to mount a serious challenge for the top four next season.

 

[Carbonara]

Neapolitans are an extreme case though, they exaggerate in the other direction. Still remember the full night of fireworks and partying they had just before bottling their last league games and gifting us the title some years ago. Let them celebrate as much as they feel like it, there's no rules on the matter

I don't think Neapolitans are that extreme.I think there are other teams around the world whos fans would have celebrated a big victory in such a way.

 

[Carbonara]

So it was the first time in 13 years the owner of City had gone to watch them play.Just think about that.

 

[Sepulveda]

The whole thing is meaningless, City are meaningless.

Football is inherently meaningless, we collectively give it metaphoric meaning. If you think the most prestigious European competition is meaningless, maybe you've lost interest in club football altogether.

That, or

 

[kuzushi]

Well City and Cheslsea are in there because of the huge amounts of money spent.Newcastle could be there soon.It;s not because England have started producing great players which would benefit the national team.It's just because big money has come to the Prem.Man U could be next with an Arab takeover.It hasn't benefited the national team at all.It just means the Prem is full of foreign players. The media, pundits etc couldn't care less where the money comes from or if it affects the national side.They just want the best league in the world and the best teams.So what if a killer owns Newcastle, When you consider the huge amounts spent in the Prem the record of English sides is not that impressive.Currently despite all the money spent you can only say it boasts one top side.

The big money that is in English football is a relatively recent thing. At the point when English teams were banned in 1985, English teams had the most European Cup titles, with 8 against Spain's 6 all won by Real Madrid back in the 50's and 60's. English teams had won 7 of the previous 8 titles. Man U, Liverpool, Forest, Villa... not just one team. And these were the days when English teams consisted >90% of English players. When Liverpool won it in 1984, the only non-UK or Irish player they had was Bruce Grobbelaar from Zimbabwe. Then, of course, the momentum English teams had was interrupted by the 5-year ban. It seems that the unimpressive record you are referring to has been since the English top flight has been filled with foreign players. The record certainly was impressive in the days when it was all British and Irish players. Here is the 1982 Final as an example, with a team consisting solely of British players. It's weird why the national team didn't perform better, since English teams were crushing it in Europe. Perhaps it is the galvanising effect of combining the English with the Scottish, a bit like how the British Empire became the biggest the world had ever seen after the Union of England and Scotland in 1707:

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

So. Are we decided yet? Was that a wondrous worldie save by Ederson at the death, as BT commentary would have it? Or did he just instinctively stick a lucky knee out, as most viewers in real time - and also with the benefit of unlimited replays - would 'of' observed?

Well, certainly the latter. The commentator was (and probably still is) a half wit. Even his co commentators were laughing at him.

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

Football is inherently meaningless, we collectively give it metaphoric meaning. If you think the most prestigious European competition is meaningless, maybe you've lost interest in club football altogether.

That, or

Perhaps if several of your top clubs were owned by countries (which are medieval and barbaric) distorting the league and cheating the books, you'd feel the same.

 

[Sepulveda]

Perhaps if several of your top clubs were owned by countries (which are medieval and barbaric) distorting the league and cheating the books, you'd feel the same.

Saying the Champions League as a whole is meaningless has nothing to do with City's ownership, nor does saying Manchester City as a whole club are. I understand the moral stance and especially the need for more equitable competition (in the winter window, the PL collectively spent 830 million euros while Serie A only 31 millions.) But theoretically someone like Boehly could have spent the same to build a squad to win the treble - instead of flushing millions down the drain - and nobody would have said anything about that.

Now yes, obviously they should be judged in court on their alleged financial breaches and yes, they represent a country that is for many issues still quite backwards on social rights, but if we look purely at the football side of it - and that's what I'm mostly interested in in this conversation - then they spent their money well and followed a coherent long-term plan. I don't like it but it's not simply them that are wrong; they're easy targets for outraged fans, but it's the system itself that's not balanced. They've played it better than most. Many other super-rich owners who might not be exactly spotless individuals have just thrown money around mindlessly and didn't achieve nearly as much as they should have.

 

[Carbonara]

The big money that is in English football is a relatively recent thing. At the point when English teams were banned in 1985, English teams had the most European Cup titles, with 8 against Spain's 6 all won by Real Madrid back in the 50's and 60's. English teams had won 7 of the previous 8 titles. Man U, Liverpool, Forest, Villa... not just one team. And these were the days when English teams consisted >90% of English players. When Liverpool won it in 1984, the only non-UK or Irish player they had was Bruce Grobbelaar from Zimbabwe. Then, of course, the momentum English teams had was interrupted by the 5-year ban. It seems that the unimpressive record you are referring to has been since the English top flight has been filled with foreign players. The record certainly was impressive in the days when it was all British and Irish players. Here is the 1982 Final as an example, with a team consisting solely of British players. It's weird why the national team didn't perform better, since English teams were crushing it in Europe. Perhaps it is the galvanising effect of combining the English with the Scottish, a bit like how the British Empire became the biggest the world had ever seen after the Union of England and Scotland in 1707:


View attachment 162175

I was referring to the current/recent situation as this is more relevant than what happened years ago. It's interesting that during a time when English teams were doing well in Europe in the 70s, England failed to qualify for the World Cup. There has been big money in the Prem for quite a few years now but this has not impacted on European results as much as you would have thought.Also, the Prem has proved that throwing money at a team doesn't even guarantee success in the league.There were 5 Italian teams in the semis of the 3 Euro competitions and for me the fact they lost all 3 finals isn;t the story.I think this has been a great year for Serie A in Europe.I do think its a shame Napoli did not get to the final as I am sure they would have beaten City. The English football family that being Media,pundits,fans are obviously over the moon that the Prem is the best and richest league in the world however I don't think this is a positive thing, It would be better if money and top players were spread around Europe.I also think its a crying shame so many top players spend so much on the subs bench because teams like City can afford to buy them and put them there.It would be great to see all of these players playing on a regular basis wherever that may be. It also has an impact on the national side as there are so many foreigners playing in the Prem now. On the other hand, Serie A does not have the money to buy all the top foreign players so instead of giving a chance to up and coming Italians, they seem to just buy lower grade foreign players.

 

[zefarelly]

Neapolitans are an extreme case though, they exaggerate in the other direction. Still remember the full night of fireworks and partying they had just before bottling their last league games and gifting us the title some years ago. Let them celebrate as much as they feel like it, there's no rules on the matter

Getting het up on other peoples ability to part is very Colonial!

 

[nicko31]

Pathetic from the City fans, one chant of Blue Moon in the first half and that was about it. Wait until we show Europe what we're made of 'Allbiiiooooonnn, Allbiiiooooonn

Remember this is the club and couldn't fill the away end at the Amex 4 days after winning the PL

 

[zefarelly]

Saying the Champions League as a whole is meaningless has nothing to do with City's ownership, nor does saying Manchester City as a whole club are. I understand the moral stance and especially the need for more equitable competition (in the winter window, the PL collectively spent 830 million euros while Serie A only 31 millions.) But theoretically someone like Boehly could have spent the same to build a squad to win the treble - instead of flushing millions down the drain - and nobody would have said anything about that.

Now yes, obviously they should be judged in court on their alleged financial breaches and yes, they represent a country that is for many issues still quite backwards on social rights, but if we look purely at the football side of it - and that's what I'm mostly interested in in this conversation - then they spent their money well and followed a coherent long-term plan. I don't like it but it's not simply them that are wrong; they're easy targets for outraged fans, but it's the system itself that's not balanced. They've played it better than most. Many other super-rich owners who might not be exactly spotless individuals have just thrown money around mindlessly and didn't achieve nearly as much as they should have.

Spot on . . . And for the perfect cross reference you only need to look at motorsport, particularly Bormula one.

 

[Carbonara]

Remember this is the club and couldn't fill the away end at the Amex 4 days after winning the PL

Is that right? Imagine you are a City fan.Where's the joy? What gives you a kick? You've now won the CL so you've won everything and you did the treble.Are you excited at the prospect of winning the Prem next year? Do you still get a buzz from winning a game? Isn;t it like living in Florida and having the sun every single day? Don't you just want it to rain sometimes like in the old days ??

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

My Italian team is Bologna.

The thing that stops me buying their shirt is that it is blue and red stripes…

I wouldn’t say I have a team BUT I did see Pescara play Napoli when I was at a wedding in Pescara many years ago. Their some of their home kits are quite amazing and blue and white. Also seen both Lazio and Roma play in Rome (seperate game) but not as interesting.

 

[Sid and the Sharknados]

Uh, my grandma is from that province (from a small town in the Val Tidone to be precise), so I've heard a bit of Piacentino dialect in my life. I can't speak it though, outside one or two words/phrases (e.g. "cus ghé?"="what's this/what's happening?" and "bagài"="kid".) And of course the rhyming saying "Cul ad Piaseinsa, quand i nam mia fan seinsa." ("Those of Piacenza, when they don't have something they do without", which reflects their pride in making do and being agricultural, middle/lower-class people.) The city itself is less beautiful than the surrounding province in my opinion. I've never followed the football team though.

Yeah, it's a nice enough place but I struggle to think of a reason why anybody would actively choose to go there if they didn't have some sort of connection or obligation.
They've had a few seasons in Serie A, and won the Anglo-Italian Cup in 1986. Although I gather at that time only Italian teams took part. They beat Pontedera in the final.

 

[Cheeky Monkey]

Is that right? Imagine you are a City fan.Where's the joy? What gives you a kick? You've now won the CL so you've won everything and you did the treble.Are you excited at the prospect of winning the Prem next year? Do you still get a buzz from winning a game? Isn;t it like living in Florida and having the sun every single day? Don't you just want it to rain sometimes like in the old days ??

It's almost akin to Celtic fans wildly celebrating a first, second, third etc. goal against the likes of Ross County, what is that all about? I can only guess that they view it through the lens of it improving their league position against Rangers, and that Ross County don't even come into it where the 'joy' is concerned. Very hollow experience surely?

 

[Grassman]

My Italian team is Bologna.

The thing that stops me buying their shirt is that it is blue and red stripes…

Same here! The good lady owns an apartment there, so have visited many times, though never when they have been at home! It’s a lovely city. I have walked past their ground quite a few times on the walk up to San Luca.

 

[trueblue]

I do agree with this. I am irritated we are only in the Europa.

I would say we were the third best team last season (or maybe equal third with Newcastle). VAR arguably cost us 8+ points and then there were the annoying games we dominated but somehow didn't win (Forest and Fulham at home, for example).

Can't help thinking last season was our big chance. Ali Mac gone, Cacideo to follow, Europa games on top of the EPL - I think it will be near to impossible for us to mount a serious challenge for the top four next season.

I think even without those factors, it would be near impossible to mount a top 4 challenge next season. There are at least 8 clubs with superior resources that should logically be expected to finish above us, a few of which simply can't be as bad again. Mid-table and a UEL run would be a great season. Our most achievable route to the game-changer of Champions League football is to win the UEL so it'll be worth prioritising. A long shot but qualification via the top 4 is even longer.