Can Zimbabwe be saved?

[Man of Harveys]

Jesus, this actually makes me feel physically sick...two days of torture - presumably that's just fine with the South African govt:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/6445071.stm

 

[Questions]

Jesus, this actually makes me feel physically sick...two days of torture - presumably that's just fine with the South African govt:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/6445071.stm

To say The South African leadership stands buy and does nothing shows your ignorance on these matters. Thabo Nbeki`s father Govan may well have educated his son one would feel over human rights after the beatings he received when in custody all those years ago.
The new African Commission on Human and People's Rights - another institution that Mbeki is involved in - has also "issued a report saying that the Zimbabwean government should be investigated for gross human-rights abuses."

Do you suggest South Africa intervenes like they did all those years ago in Angola.

 

[HampshireSeagulls]

To say The South African leadership stands buy and does nothing shows your ignorance on these matters. Thabo Nbeki`s father Govan may well have educated his son one would feel over human rights after the beatings he received when in custody all those years ago.
The new African Commission on Human and People's Rights - another institution that Mbeki is involved in - has also "issued a report saying that the Zimbabwean government should be investigated for gross human-rights abuses."

Do you suggest South Africa intervenes like they did all those years ago in Angola.

"issued a report saying they should be investigated" - not particularly proactive, is it? South Africa did not cover itself in glory with Angola, but remember that they were fighting in support of UNITA against the MPLA, who themselves were supporting SWAPO in the Namibian debacle. The Lusaka Agreement should have sorted it all out, but as you probably know, SA went in again from 85 to 87 when the SAFD suffered a major reversal. This was despite the US covert support of their actions. Since then, Angola has descended into a kind of stalemate of warring factions with MPLA remaining in nominal charge, and the resulting humanitarian shambles and minor guerrilla incursions from minority groups.

It would require more than a statement from SA declaring that Mugabe has been a bit of a naughty boy - it requires a consolidated effort from the African Nations to remove him from power, but where it goes from there, who really knows? Would you want to see the Western world involved in Africa again - and could the Western world really supply enough force to control the country properly? Establishing puppet regimes is never a good option, they never work well, or for long - the country needs to take charge of it's own destiny, but as we have seen with the African continent, this tends to involve lots of violence over a long time.

 

[Questions]

"issued a report saying they should be investigated" - not particularly proactive, is it? South Africa did not cover itself in glory with Angola, but remember that they were fighting in support of UNITA against the MPLA, who themselves were supporting SWAPO in the Namibian debacle. The Lusaka Agreement should have sorted it all out, but as you probably know, SA went in again from 85 to 87 when the SAFD suffered a major reversal. This was despite the US covert support of their actions. Since then, Angola has descended into a kind of stalemate of warring factions with MPLA remaining in nominal charge, and the resulting humanitarian shambles and minor guerrilla incursions from minority groups.

It would require more than a statement from SA declaring that Mugabe has been a bit of a naughty boy - it requires a consolidated effort from the African Nations to remove him from power, but where it goes from there, who really knows? Would you want to see the Western world involved in Africa again - and could the Western world really supply enough force to control the country properly? Establishing puppet regimes is never a good option, they never work well, or for long - the country needs to take charge of it's own destiny, but as we have seen with the African continent, this tends to involve lots of violence over a long time.

You echo the exact sentiments of Mbeki just recently when he stated that Zims problem will almost certainly have to be resolved from within.
I would question his sentiments over the recent elections though when he called criticisms over Mgabe`s corrupt ballotting tactics as a nuisence.

He does though have the problem in that he must treat Zim as a sovereign African state and also that he is more than a little pre-occupied with his intentions to get S.A. elected to a permanent seat on the U.N. security council.

If he succeeds in this quest he will have so much more bargaining power over African issues..

 

[glasfryn]

wonder if hooky hoogsraten is involved:gossip:

better he is involved there than brighton I feel an armed struggle on its way and lets hope that it is successful for any opposition of mugabe

 

[Barrel of Fun]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/6503061.stm

Mugabe, you are utter scum.

 

[readingstockport]

Mbeki doesn't have as much influence with Mugabe as does Njomo. He's the one they should be working on imho.

 

[robbied69]

Unless G W Bush says something Blair won't do anything.

Plus where do people reckon Zimbabwe get there weapons from?