Can someone explain to me the way Sami's full back tactics work please

[Icy Gull]

I haven't been to any pre season games but keep reading how Sami wants his full backs to maraud down the wing and even stay high up the pitch when they haven't got the ball? Two questions

1) Do we still need wingers?

2) Does this not expose us to a fast counter attack and leave us light on both sides at the back?

Comments would be appreciated as I don't really get it. It cannot be that simplistic or naïve I'm sure.

 

[clippedgull]

Wouldn't the defensive midfielders cover the full backs if they are in attack mode?

The wingers might be operating more central than hugging the line!

 

[JBenno]

I haven't been to any pre season games but keep reading how Sami wants his full backs to maraud down the wing and even stay high up the pitch when they haven't got the ball? Two questions

1) Do we still need wingers?

2) Does this not expose us to a fast counter attack and leave us light on both sides at the back?

Comments would be appreciated as I don't really get it.

Good Question - The philosophy would seem to be; push the full backs as far up the pitch as possible. This allows your midfield players to tuck inside, thus having the numbers to win the midfield battle in a game and own possession.
The problem occurs, where like now - You don't have full backs with sufficient quality, pace and engines to cover opponents counter attacks.
The aim I would think is that we now have 2 x defensive midfielders in this formation, allowing one on either side the cover behind a full back when required.
As I mentioned though, you need very good players at full back and defensive midfield to make this work. This is where our problem will come....

 

[seagully]

Good Question - The philosophy would seem to be; push the full backs as far up the pitch as possible. This allows your midfield players to tuck inside, thus having the numbers to win the midfield battle in a game and own possession.
The problem occurs, where like now - You don't have full backs with sufficient quality, pace and engines to cover opponents counter attacks.
The aim I would think is that we now have 2 x defensive midfielders in this formation, allowing one on either side the cover behind a full back when required.
As I mentioned though, you need very good players at full back and defensive midfield to make this work. This is where our problem will come....

Can see Ward and Ince being up to doing that. Haven't seen Toko yet so cannot comment on him. Would worry about Bruno and Calde's lack of pace on the right side.

 

[bn1&bn3 Albion]

Pushing your fall backs forward and wide will spread the oppositions midfield, allowing balls to played easier through the middle. I can see us playing Ince and Toko in a more defensive style to cover the fall backs when they go forward.

 

[shaolinpunk]

Fullbacks provide the width in attack while the three attacking midfielders are behind the striker more centrally and where they are to find pockets of space, they can swap places at will and can push on past the striker. That's the theory anyway.

Effective defensive midfielders that can cover the ground are key if possession is lost with the fullbacks completely out of position

 

[Greavsey]

Can see Ward and Ince being up to doing that. Haven't seen Toko yet so cannot comment on him. Would worry about Bruno and Calde's lack of pace on the right side.

Aided by Bruno's "I'll be there in a minute lads" approach to tracking back, I'm surprised we haven't been in for a right and left back as yet.

 

[Mattywerewolf]

Can see Ward and Ince being up to doing that. Haven't seen Toko yet so cannot comment on him. Would worry about Bruno and Calde's lack of pace on the right side.

This was a concern vs Soton. 45 mins each was the solution but not for a season long campaign

 

[Quinney]

Greer seemed to be the one covering right back slot against Southampton in the first half once full back pushed up. Midfielders then trying to fill the middle. Not sure we've the pace in our team to play his way.

 

[Sheebo]

We need wingers - way too narrow v saints.

Also Chicksen barely made a forward pass or crossed the halfway line. We need Ward ASAP!

 

[kevtherev]

I think we need an experienced Assistant Manager, that's all I'm going to say on the subject....at the moment.

 

[studio150]

Peter Smith a man ahead of his time, fully suited to this role.

 

[smiler]

This system hasnt worked in the friendlies I have seen ( Lewes Peterboro and Saints) and I find this worrying

 

[Icy Gull]

So it looks like we should be concentrating on getting in quality full backs with pace, skill and good engines rather than targeting 2 million pound midfielders, where we are pretty blessed comparatively?. It would also follow that getting Ward is of paramount importance if we are not going to get stuffed down the left hand side over the games until 31 August, or whenever these shenanigans with Wolves have run their course.? Not convinced Calde or Bruno are up to this job on the other side either, much as I like Bruno. Both are a bit geriatric no?

 

[HenryC]

I suspect that what will happen is that the full backs will push forward during a lightening counter attack, we will lose possession with a careless pass, our opponents will break on us with the sort of speed and precision that we can only dream of and we will be holding our heads in hands as Stockdale picks the ball out of the net... How fecking depressing...

 

[Icy Gull]

I suspect that what will happen is that the full backs will push forward during a lightening counter attack, we will lose possession with a careless pass, our opponents will break on us with the sort of speed and precision that we can only dream of and we will be holding our heads in hands as Stockdale picks the ball out of the net... How fecking depressing...

I didn't want to paint this scenario but it does seem kind of logical with the players we have at our disposal, if my interpretation of how this system works is even half correct. Maybe Sami should study the Derby second leg DVD and have a rethink?

 

[London Irish]

I haven't been to any pre season games but keep reading how Sami wants his full backs to maraud down the wing and even stay high up the pitch when they haven't got the ball? Two questions

1) Do we still need wingers?

2) Does this not expose us to a fast counter attack and leave us light on both sides at the back?

Comments would be appreciated as I don't really get it. It cannot be that simplistic or naïve I'm sure.

This is why I think watching the pre-seasons were important. I think it does leave us defensively suspect because the two wider players of the midfield 3 have to fill in for the advanced full-backs and I think they have found that uncomfortable. They have been schooled by Gus (and also Oscar to be fair) of getting up to support the lone striker, now they have to be much more careful with those advanced runs. At Crawley, Kemi A barely moved from a 10 or 20 yard radius such was his discomfort at knowing where he should be at any time.

There are plusses and minuses about playing the likes of KLL, Buckley and March inside rather than wide. You can make plausible cases for both.

The full-backs - it should suit Calde and Bruno as naturally attacking players. But there are question marks over the defensive capabilities of both, Gus just about favoured Bruno for that reason.

I think we've been playing Sami's new system badly. But it could improve with more game time.

I just think with a depleted, maybe more unconfident squad, I think it's a big call to make such big changes that affect all parts of the team shape. Would have preferred more familiar systems until we got the cavalry of signings arriving but I accept Sami is paid to make these calls, good luck to him if they work out, if they do he deserves a lot of credit

 

[shaolinpunk]

Physically Chicksen has what he needs to do this - he's very quick and has good stamina. It's just the rest of his game that isn't up to scratch.

 

[Icy Gull]

This is why I think watching the pre-seasons were important. I think it does leave us defensively suspect because the two wider players of the midfield 3 have to fill in for the advanced full-backs and I think they have found that uncomfortable. They have been schooled by Gus (and also Oscar to be fair) of getting up to support the lone striker, now they have to be much more careful with those advanced runs. At Crawley, Kemi A barely moved from a 10 or 20 yard radius such was his discomfort at knowing where he should be at any time.

There are plusses and minuses about playing the likes of KLL, Buckley and March inside rather than wide. You can make plausible cases for both.

The full-backs - it should suit Calde and Bruno as naturally attacking players. But there are question marks over the defensive capabilities of both, Gus just about favoured Bruno for that reason.

I think we've been playing Sami's new system badly. But it could improve with more game time.

I just think with a depleted, maybe more unconfident squad, I think it's a big call to make such big changes that affect all parts of the team shape. Would have preferred more familiar systems until we got the cavalry of signings arriving but I accept Sami is paid to make these calls, good luck to him if they work out, if they do he deserves a lot of credit

In short we are changing the system using a very weakened and less experienced squad, doesn't sound good Maybe this IS going to be a transitional season and just staying up will do? Or putting my rather battered optimistic hat on, Sami is going to inspire and coach the team to believe and produce?

 

[Stat Brother]

In short we are changing the system using a very weakened and less experienced squad, doesn't sound good Maybe this IS going to be a transitional season and just staying up will do? Or putting my rather battered optimistic hat on, Sami is going to inspire and coach the team to believe and produce?

I don't see how you think it's a changed system.

Calde and Buckley's link up play in the first Amex season, was thrilling to watch.
They would both press so far up the pitch, esp in the second half, they'd hold back 3 opposition players, minimum.
All the while Bridcutt, with a resigned shrug of the shoulders, would trudge over to right back muttering 'he's buggered off again'.

As said Bruno's either defending or attacking, one or the other but never both.
Whereas Ward last season was our second best defender and consistently the most creative left sided attacking option.

It would seem Sami wants more of the same only quicker (just the same as Oscar's preseason mantra)