Campaign to get Ding Dong the Witch is Dead to Number One

[HovaGirl]

Sure: Before Thatcher was pm our society was different, we acted like less of a capitalist country and there is an argument that overall, people were doing less for themselves than after Thatcher. But that's not because people weren't greedy (look at how greedy Scargill is), it's because there weren't so many opportunities for people to better themselves - we had still been living off the success of being the first nation to industrialise, but we were starting to fall behind. In order to keep up with the world our country was going to change with or without Thatcher. Hate her by all means, but to think the people weren't greedy before her is misunderstanding what happened. It's like saying that whomever takes a country out of communism is the one that invented greed (for that country).

Good post.

 

[Pevenseagull]

 

[GNF on Tour]

If you can't work that one out, then you are dimmer than I thought. Not all intelligence gathered is accurate. Some of it is counter-intelligence. Some of it is propaganda. Some of it is lies. Some of it is true. And some of it is just plain wrong. But at the time of the intelligence, it's not always easy to tell how accurate the intelligence is. After the event, when all has been done, and analysed, only then can it be known how accurate the intelligence actually was.

LOL - are you suddenly James Bond.
YOU NEED TO CALM DOWN, YOU WILL DO YOURSELF A MISCHIEF.

 

[Biscuit]

On a side note, is there any chance we can bring big industry and manufacturing back to the UK?

 

[HovaGirl]

UK debt in 1979 was around 43% of GDP. Current UK debt is around 60% of GDP.

Greece in 2012 is 161% of GDP and forecast to hit 190% in 2013.

Your comparison is frankly embarrassing.

And your whacking out GDP statistics is, frankly, irrelevant. I lived in Greece for many years, and the whole atmosphere and attitude of that nation was very reminiscent of Britain in the 70s. Strikes were, and are, commonplace in Greece. Suddenly, without warning, the buses would go on strike, and people couldn't get to work. Or the rubbish wouldn't be collected for weeks. Or newspapers would suddenly stop. As an aside, Greece has today entered deflation, with a figure of -.2%.

 

[soistes]

I confess I really don’t understand the argument that one should “show respect” to someone that’s died etc.

Of course, I’m happy to show respect towards people that I know or come across in everyday life (in the expectation that they’ll show reciprocal respect towards me etc), and that’s just day-to-day politeness.

However, I don’t feel any general obligation of respect towards some distant public figure, unless that respect has been earned in some way. So, in that case, I’d be happy to show respect towards a public figure who has done something that I admire, or who lives in a way that I regard as admirable, or who has contributed something out of the ordinary to society (Gandhi, Nelson Mandela etc, or umpteen great artists and musicians). In the case of someone whose ideology I despise, and whose activities and life’s work have, in my view, been harmful rather than beneficial, I feel no such obligation of respect, and that doesn’t change just because they are dead.

Indeed, on balance, even if am going to be respectful to anyone (which I’m not in the case of Thatcher), I’m more inclined to do it when they’re alive than when they are a decomposing corpse.

So I feel absolutely no compunction in expressing disrespect towards a dead Thatcher, and I don’t think that makes me a bad person, or in need of reflecting on my actions or any other of the pompous suggestions found in the “outraged of Hove” posts on here.

As far as the campaign for the Judy Garland song goes, I think that’s an excellent and quite amusing, tongue-in-cheek way for people like me who hated Thatcher and all she stood for and did, to express their disrespect in a fairly low key way, and remind the world how many people really did and still do detest her, without going out on the streets and demonstrating etc (that sort of thing is more relevant when it might make a difference to something in real time, e.g, poll tax demo, anti-Iraq war etc)

And, just to be clear, I’m not some youthful know-nothing, who didn’t experience the 70s and 80s (although why that should preclude someone from having a considered view is beyond me) – I did live through it as an educated adult, and I’ve looked at and considered the evidence on both sides of the argument. All things considered, I still want to show my disrespect in some way. Sorry about that.

 

[banjo]

 

[Brian Fantana]

On a side note, is there any chance we can bring big industry and manufacturing back to the UK?

Hitachi are currently building a factory in County Durham which will manufacture a lot of their rolling European train stock. First time in a long while that manufacturing jobs have returned to the North East.

 

[Napper]

Spread the word people. Give Thatcher a final kick she deserved by keeping this No 1

The Tories on here are starting to have hissys , keep it up

 

[HovaGirl]

Ridiculous argument that I am getting really fed up of reading (read my post above).

Why? It's true. And there wouldn't be a property ladder, because mortgages were very difficult to get hold of, then. We bought our £11,000 house in 1978 and we needed a 10% deposit, but we didn't have it. So we had to borrow it from someone and spent years paying it back. Mrs Thatcher loosened up bank lending so more people were able to get mortgages much more easily, and that meant house prices shot up. For guidance, my wages trebled between 1970 and 1980, from £10 a week to £30 a week, because inflation had been so high in between. That will tell you just how long it would have taken to save the £1100 deposit, or how long it took us to pay it back.

 

[GNF on Tour]

I confess I really don’t understand the argument that one should “show respect” to someone that’s died etc.

Of course, I’m happy to show respect towards people that I know or come across in everyday life (in the expectation that they’ll show reciprocal respect towards me etc), and that’s just day-to-day politeness.

However, I don’t feel any general obligation of respect towards some distant public figure, unless that respect has been earned in some way. So, in that case, I’d be happy to show respect towards a public figure who has done something that I admire, or who lives in a way that I regard as admirable, or who has contributed something out of the ordinary to society (Gandhi, Nelson Mandela etc, or umpteen great artists and musicians). In the case of someone whose ideology I despise, and whose activities and life’s work have, in my view, been harmful rather than beneficial, I feel no such obligation of respect, and that doesn’t change just because they are dead.

Indeed, on balance, even if am going to be respectful to anyone (which I’m not in the case of Thatcher), I’m more inclined to do it when they’re alive than when they are a decomposing corpse.

So I feel absolutely no compunction in expressing disrespect towards a dead Thatcher, and I don’t think that makes me a bad person, or in need of reflecting on my actions or any other of the pompous suggestions found in the “outraged of Hove” posts on here.

As far as the campaign for the Judy Garland song goes, I think that’s an excellent and quite amusing, tongue-in-cheek way for people like me who hated Thatcher and all she stood for and did, to express their disrespect in a fairly low key way, and remind the world how many people really did and still do detest her, without going out on the streets and demonstrating etc (that sort of thing is more relevant when it might make a difference to something in real time, e.g, poll tax demo, anti-Iraq war etc)

And, just to be clear, I’m not some youthful know-nothing, who didn’t experience the 70s and 80s (although why that should preclude someone from having a considered view is beyond me) – I did live through it as an educated adult, and I’ve looked at and considered the evidence on both sides of the argument. All things considered, I still want to show my disrespect in some way. Sorry about that.

10/10 - now you have done it, Hova Girl will explode, she will "allovaHOVA girl"

 

[Mackenzie]

1. Mrs T didn't lay the foundations for the internet, it evolved from Arpanet/Darpanet.
2. The GPO always had provisions for people to have more than one phone (up to 6 in a standard installation, more if required but needed a ringing converter)
3. BT was a founding partner in TSCR which evolved into Cellnet then O2
4. Average speed in France is 17.03Mb, a mere 1700% error (in the UK it is 20.05Mb which probably reflects the UK being a smaller country and a more urban environment)

Other than that though, a very well informed post.

 

[Brian Fantana]

Why? It's true. And there wouldn't be a property ladder, because mortgages were very difficult to get hold of, then. We bought our £11,000 house in 1978 and we needed a 10% deposit, but we didn't have it. So we had to borrow it from someone and spent years paying it back. Mrs Thatcher loosened up bank lending so more people were able to get mortgages much more easily, and that meant house prices shot up. For guidance, my wages trebled between 1970 and 1980, from £10 a week to £30 a week, because inflation had been so high in between. That will tell you just how long it would have taken to save the £1100 deposit, or how long it took us to pay it back.

I think the point he was making is that just because someone was actually there at the time doesn't necessarily put them in a better position to comment than someone who wasn't.

 

[Randsta]

Boom-boom.

Savile actually spent Christmas at Chequers with Thatcher. I am not sure what that says about her judgement, and the judgement of those around her.

See cnn coverage http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2306481/Margaret-Thatcher-dead-CNN-tribute-blunder-running-picture-PM-JIMMY-SAVILE.html

 

[Mackenzie]

I confess I really don’t understand the argument that one should “show respect” to someone that’s died etc.

Of course, I’m happy to show respect towards people that I know or come across in everyday life (in the expectation that they’ll show reciprocal respect towards me etc), and that’s just day-to-day politeness.

However, I don’t feel any general obligation of respect towards some distant public figure, unless that respect has been earned in some way. So, in that case, I’d be happy to show respect towards a public figure who has done something that I admire, or who lives in a way that I regard as admirable, or who has contributed something out of the ordinary to society (Gandhi, Nelson Mandela etc, or umpteen great artists and musicians). In the case of someone whose ideology I despise, and whose activities and life’s work have, in my view, been harmful rather than beneficial, I feel no such obligation of respect, and that doesn’t change just because they are dead.

Indeed, on balance, even if am going to be respectful to anyone (which I’m not in the case of Thatcher), I’m more inclined to do it when they’re alive than when they are a decomposing corpse.

So I feel absolutely no compunction in expressing disrespect towards a dead Thatcher, and I don’t think that makes me a bad person, or in need of reflecting on my actions or any other of the pompous suggestions found in the “outraged of Hove” posts on here.

As far as the campaign for the Judy Garland song goes, I think that’s an excellent and quite amusing, tongue-in-cheek way for people like me who hated Thatcher and all she stood for and did, to express their disrespect in a fairly low key way, and remind the world how many people really did and still do detest her, without going out on the streets and demonstrating etc (that sort of thing is more relevant when it might make a difference to something in real time, e.g, poll tax demo, anti-Iraq war etc)

And, just to be clear, I’m not some youthful know-nothing, who didn’t experience the 70s and 80s (although why that should preclude someone from having a considered view is beyond me) – I did live through it as an educated adult, and I’ve looked at and considered the evidence on both sides of the argument. All things considered, I still want to show my disrespect in some way. Sorry about that.

Very well written post, which I find almost impossible to disagree with.

Well done.

 

[Biscuit]

Hitachi are currently building a factory in County Durham which will manufacture a lot of their rolling European train stock. First time in a long while that manufacturing jobs have returned to the North East.

Good to hear, thanks for the reply!

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

Hitachi are currently building a factory in County Durham which will manufacture a lot of their rolling European train stock. First time in a long while that manufacturing jobs have returned to the North East.

Also:
1980 Car Production: 924,000
2011 Car Production: 1,344,000

 

[Brian Fantana]

Good to hear, thanks for the reply!

No worries. It shows what can be done when politicians, unions and big companies actually work together!

 

[HovaGirl]

She did not save the country billions, the majority of this country paid one way or another and are still paying now. Remember this when your gas, electricity and water bills rise regularly above inflation in order to maintain " Profitability ". Remember this when you ride in your cramped, German made train, paying a fortune for a season ticket despite the rail subsidy given to all the train companies.

Remember this if/when your employer decides to "rationalise " it's staffing levels and there is no one to stand up for you, remember this when your company demands an increase in profits/sales every year yet somehow, YOU cannot expect an increase in wages proportionally despite your increasing cost of living.

You and your family may well be quite comfortable financially at this point in your lives but that will change thanks to her legacy when you are no longer profitable to employ.

I have just started to notice that some Tories are slowly admitting that she had " done some things wrong" or " tended to trust her judgement as being the right way to go". The majority of the Tories have to tow the party line that she was a patriotic saint that saved Great Britain, however, some are starting to break cover and tell the other side. I have more respect for David Mellor now after hearing that he told her in Cabinet that he thought the Poll Tax was a bad idea and that after that, he was out at the next re-shuffle, as was anyone who had a contrary view to hers.

Once the ashes have settled, I think slowly more people will see her in her true light.

People have seen her in her true light for decades. That's why she has always been so divisive. Some of what she did was necessary (if difficult) but some of what she did was not. I used to say that it would take a generation before people realised the damage she did. I believe that some de-nationalisation was necessary, but some of it was not. The utilitiies should have been left in State hands, as should British Rail, because they are national assets and necessities which involve the whole country. The coal mines is a difficult one, because as soon as British Rail stopped firing its engines with coal, coal mining was doomed in this country. She put far too much reliance in the service sector, a volatile industry full of non-jobs. She should never have sold the council houses.

We are not at all comfortable financially and have a miserable and starving retirement to look forward to. The only thing I defend from Mrs Thatcher's time as PM, is that she did haul this country away from the looming bankruptcy she inherited, just as Cameron has to do, but he doesn't have the conviction or courage that she had.

 

[Napper]

I confess I really don’t understand the argument that one should “show respect” to someone that’s died etc.

Of course, I’m happy to show respect towards people that I know or come across in everyday life (in the expectation that they’ll show reciprocal respect towards me etc), and that’s just day-to-day politeness.

However, I don’t feel any general obligation of respect towards some distant public figure, unless that respect has been earned in some way. So, in that case, I’d be happy to show respect towards a public figure who has done something that I admire, or who lives in a way that I regard as admirable, or who has contributed something out of the ordinary to society (Gandhi, Nelson Mandela etc, or umpteen great artists and musicians). In the case of someone whose ideology I despise, and whose activities and life’s work have, in my view, been harmful rather than beneficial, I feel no such obligation of respect, and that doesn’t change just because they are dead.

Indeed, on balance, even if am going to be respectful to anyone (which I’m not in the case of Thatcher), I’m more inclined to do it when they’re alive than when they are a decomposing corpse.

So I feel absolutely no compunction in expressing disrespect towards a dead Thatcher, and I don’t think that makes me a bad person, or in need of reflecting on my actions or any other of the pompous suggestions found in the “outraged of Hove” posts on here.

As far as the campaign for the Judy Garland song goes, I think that’s an excellent and quite amusing, tongue-in-cheek way for people like me who hated Thatcher and all she stood for and did, to express their disrespect in a fairly low key way, and remind the world how many people really did and still do detest her, without going out on the streets and demonstrating etc (that sort of thing is more relevant when it might make a difference to something in real time, e.g, poll tax demo, anti-Iraq war etc)

And, just to be clear, I’m not some youthful know-nothing, who didn’t experience the 70s and 80s (although why that should preclude someone from having a considered view is beyond me) – I did live through it as an educated adult, and I’ve looked at and considered the evidence on both sides of the argument. All things considered, I still want to show my disrespect in some way. Sorry about that.

Maybe we are supposed to be respectful for fear of upsetting international arms dealer Mark Thatcher