Campaign to get Ding Dong the Witch is Dead to Number One

[Common as Mook]

A bit of myth busting around the miners' strike, written by someone alive at the time and living in Sheffield:

It's himself, Phelan: Myths and the miners strike

Key bit here which I never knew:

In 1955 only 9.2% of coal was power loaded, by 1969 this had risen to 92.2%. Jobs were lost in numbers that the Thatcher years never got close to. 346,000 miners left the industry between 1963 and 1968, in 1967 there were 12,900 forced redundancies. Under the prime minister during that period, Harold Wilson, one pit closed every week yet there are few people planning trips to his grave with their tap shoes.

 

[Brian Fantana]

No, no its not......what are you babbling on about?

This.

There's a massive difference between intelligence and educated assumptions.

 

[HovaGirl]

This is probably worth a thread in itself another time. Many people vote for candidates who they think will listen to and represent the views of their constituency rather than steadfastly follow their personal conviction.

And after 4 years of Thatcher's conviction politics, and a nation divided, even then, over whether she was doing good or ill, still voted her in twice more. Because, on balance, the nation thought she was doing good. She had brought the nation out of the doldrums.

 

[HovaGirl]

I was talking about us paying for the funeral of someone I despised as you are fully aware, but for the record it did make me sick that Labour followed on the foul Thatcher policies of greed, irresponsible capatilsm, war mongering and schmarming up to the city.

It wasn't Thatcher who was greedy, or her policies, but the working classes for whom she had opened up the world of high incomes.

 

[HovaGirl]

She blamed Thatcher for creating the circumstances in which Galtieri had the capability to achieve the invasion and believe that he would get away with it. In essence, this was the same view that former prime minister Callaghan had at the time. My great aunt believed that all the deaths that occurred were avoidable and her letter loads the blame entirely on Thatcher's shoulders.

And no, I don't support the claim of Argentina for sovereignty over the Falklands. What gave you the idea that I (or my great aunt) did?

And she was far from senile.

The impotent Callaghan would say that, wouldn't he?

 

[Bevendean Hillbilly]

I used to think that she had destroyed industry. But looking back, it was the Unions who destroyed British industry with their over-inflated demands.

She did take on union self interest and she moved Britain from a heavily regulated nationalised economy to a free market survival of the fittest model.

She knew that keeping us in the state we were in was not viable but it was the way she went about it that riles.

Destroying industry meant disenfranchising half of the country and set up riots, civil unrest and divisions which persist today. Thatcher was completely without compassion or compromise. She took conscious decisions to ruin millions of people's lives and used the organs of state to brutally crush dissent. She's hated and loved dependant on which side of the fence you were on at the time and how people individually benefited or lost out heavily.

 

[withdeanwombat]

Given that hardly anyone over 50, and affected by the issues of that time, either way, will buy singles anyway, it is frankly pathetic. Just like the swampy look-alikes who were on the streets, they know ****-all about what actually went on in those days, and are simply puppets of the socialist scum who are still smarting from the good thrashing she gave them. Either that, or the sex freeks she tried to prevent from poluting our country's young people's minds.

To say nothing of her love for Saddam, Pinochet and most things extremely right wing ; her racist predilictions as recently outlined by the Australian FM ; her govts penny pinchingness that led to the evacuation of our assets in the South Atlantic,leading to invasion by a group of scrap metal merchants followed by the Argentine armed forces,and the Great Victory which confirmed "unpopular at home ? Invent a diversion overseas".The asset stripping of our utilities,placing us at the mercy of others for our vital supplies ; the donation of the railway system to share holders still reaping the benefit of government subsidy whilst the rail system wastes in its own confusion; the selling of council houses built for those who couldn't afford to buy - esp in her ruinous reign of staggering interest rates - without allowance to rebuild the stock of housing,many of these sold at rock bottom prices,then sold on as speculation in very many instances ; turning the police into a state army to support the govts suspect decisions and at the same time turning hamlets,towns ,cities ,counties against themselves, in spite and vengeance.


Taking the milk off children.

These were great days,and she is ,indeed, a great heroine,an inspiration to us all.

Please tell me somebody has been appointed to drive a stake through her shrivelled heart - though I doubt there is one to be found.

 

[ATFC Seagull]

What winds me up is that most people 'celebrating' her death are under 30 and are just jumping on a bandwagon. She dragged the country into the modern era but people trot out the same couple of arguments, "created lots of unemployment", "closed the mines". Question them further than that and they haven't a ****ing clue what they're talking about.

I think it's a very dangerous and condescending attitude to assume that those who weren't there at the time are ill-informed and "bandwagon-jumping". I'm sure there are those that are, but you can't trump them just with the "I was there". As a history teacher, one of the fundamental things I have to remind students all the time is that a primary source isn't naturally better than a secondary one - i.e. someone at the time can be very subjective, hasn't seen the full range of evidence, whereas someone looking at a debate from years later can have the benefit of seeing the full long-term results and consequences of events, and a fuller picture of what was going on at the time.

For example, a key line I have heard trotted out many a time is "If it wasn't for her I wouldn't be on the property ladder", particularly in this part of the world. Fair play to you, but that's hardly an objective, whollistic approach to judging her policies is it?

Not going to weigh in on the Maggie debate on here (anyone who has read stuff I've written before will very easily work out my side), but she is as relevant to the youth of today as those were adults in her time, and they have a right to an opinion as much as those who lived through her era - personally if anyone gives me that "you don't know what it was realy like/what she really did" bollocks (aged 27) I will absolutely rip them apart with knowledge of her era and the key debates.

 

[HovaGirl]

Would she also be considered the most unpopular as well?

No, Gordon has probably won that accolade already. (And he was never elected as PM.)

 

[HovaGirl]

She wasnt respectful to those that lived let alone those that died as a result of her policies

Keep purchasing !

Ding dong the witch is dead.

Were you there at the end of the broken 70s? Something had to be done. If she hadn't done it, GB plc would have been bankrupt long ago. (Funny how Labour has managed to almost bankrupt the country twice in living memory.)

 

[DJ Leon]

And after 4 years of Thatcher's conviction politics, and a nation divided, even then, over whether she was doing good or ill, still voted her in twice more. Because, on balance, the nation thought she was doing good. She had brought the nation out of the doldrums.

About 40% voted for her I believe. And the overwhelming majority of those were in the south. Doesn't really put down the divided nation argument does it?

I can't really understand why anyone, regardless of the views, would think that Thatcher wasn't a divisive figure. Even SHE recognised that.

 

[HovaGirl]

Yeah. Thank god the bitch is dead. I would much prefer it working a three day week with power cuts every day and when i could just dump rubbish in the street rather than having the inconvenience of binmen clearing it away.
I would much prefer an economy based on coal mining and shipbuilding so we could compete with those high wage economies like china.
I would much prefer to be governed by union leaders with their workers interests at heart (check out last years court case involving scargill and his million pound flat - or the current union leaders who get paid more than the prime minister) so we could all walk out on strikes for weeks on end for any spurious reason.
I would much prefer to live in the 1970s equivalent of modern day greece with 25% inflation (just think of all those index linked pay rises we would get) and going to the imf for bail out loans.
Get real. The country when she came into power was falling apart and she turned it around. Sure she didnt do it perfectly - who does. But you didnt see blair or brown changing her union laws and even god help us should ed milliband (who came to lead the labour party thanks to the unions) become pm do you think he will reintroduce flying pickets and striking without ballots?

Those who think the country would be in a better place without having had her as prime minister are flat out delusional.

Quite right. Greece today is as the UK was in the 70s. Their Government will have to smash the unions, just as Mrs Thatcher did.

 

[HovaGirl]

You know that you don't have to hit the post button after every thought you have ? You can join a few together into a meaningful response

Not all posts are making the same point. I read a post, and reply, I don't want to go through the whole thread clicking little buttons.

 

[DJ Leon]

It wasn't Thatcher who was greedy, or her policies, but the working classes for whom she had opened up the world of high incomes.

Greed may be an emotive world, but there's been no greater champion of self-interest than her. Even SHE would agree with that.

In defending her, do you have an opinion that the lady herself might actually agree with?

 

[HovaGirl]

You talk some tosh HovaGirl, but you seem to be getting more and more outraged. That is such a lot of blinkered bollocks. And it is the youth who are gullible ?

Well, I don't believe I do talk tosh. And the BBC is far more blinkered than I am. I'm not outraged, except at the ill-manners of the young anti-Thatcher brigade who think it acceptable behaviour to riot in the streets in celebration at the death of an old lady, or who want to get a song such as this to Number One.

 

[HovaGirl]

What did Lady Diana meaningfully contribute to this country?

A future King and millions for charity and the clothes industry.

 

[Triggaaar]

Yeah, true but lets exercise a bit of context here shall we?

Sure: Before Thatcher was pm our society was different, we acted like less of a capitalist country and there is an argument that overall, people were doing less for themselves than after Thatcher. But that's not because people weren't greedy (look at how greedy Scargill is), it's because there weren't so many opportunities for people to better themselves - we had still been living off the success of being the first nation to industrialise, but we were starting to fall behind. In order to keep up with the world our country was going to change with or without Thatcher. Hate her by all means, but to think the people weren't greedy before her is misunderstanding what happened. It's like saying that whomever takes a country out of communism is the one that invented greed (for that country).

 

[DJ Leon]

Quite right. Greece today is as the UK was in the 70s. Their Government will have to smash the unions, just as Mrs Thatcher did.

UK debt in 1979 was around 43% of GDP. Current UK debt is around 60% of GDP.

Greece in 2012 is 161% of GDP and forecast to hit 190% in 2013.

Your comparison is frankly embarrassing.

 

[ATFC Seagull]

Were you there at the end of the broken 70s? Something had to be done. If she hadn't done it, GB plc would have been bankrupt long ago. (Funny how Labour has managed to almost bankrupt the country twice in living memory.)

Ridiculous argument that I am getting really fed up of reading (read my post above).

 

[hans kraay fan club]

She did take on union self interest and she moved Britain from a heavily regulated nationalised economy to a free market survival of the fittest model.

She knew that keeping us in the state we were in was not viable but it was the way she went about it that riles.

Destroying industry meant disenfranchising half of the country and set up riots, civil unrest and divisions which persist today. Thatcher was completely without compassion or compromise. She took conscious decisions to ruin millions of people's lives and used the organs of state to brutally crush dissent. She's hated and loved dependant on which side of the fence you were on at the time and how people individually benefited or lost out heavily.

Great post.