Brits in Libya,flights home.

[KLF]

Embassies and High Commissions are primarily there for presence for the betterment of trade and this countries ideals. The fact that they will/can look after the countries subjects whilst visiting or residing in the foreign country is secondary.

Actually, Embassies and High Commissions fall under the remit of the Foreign and Commonwealth Office. UKTI are the main source of betterment of trade between host countries and the UK, which is not part of the FCO, similarly MoD are responsible for defence sales, which again are not part of the FCO. Granted, the High Commissions and Embassies will also step in and the HCs and Ambassadors will be wheeled out whenever a big deal is in the offing, but to say it is their main role is wrong. They are there to protect British interests overseas and to promote foreign policy.

 

[SurreySeagulls]

apparently Germans stuck there too, so not "only here". i think its tricky arranging planes to go into what is potentially a war zone. US no doubt have underwriten any loss and have a dozen F16s just outside of range in case it gets tasty. we dont have half a dozen carrier fleets so tread a little more carefully.

( no, we shouldnt have binned the harriers or carriers for exactly this sort of contingency... but there we are)

The germans are probably still going round picking up their towels from the sun loungers

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

Actually, Embassies and High Commissions fall under the remit of the Foreign and Commonwealth Office. UKTI are the main source of betterment of trade between host countries and the UK, which is not part of the FCO, similarly MoD are responsible for defence sales, which again are not part of the FCO. Granted, the High Commissions and Embassies will also step in and the HCs and Ambassadors will be wheeled out whenever a big deal is in the offing, but to say it is their main role is wrong. They are there to protect British interests overseas and to promote foreign policy.

to a degree that's what I stated "this countries ideals" in other words protect British interests and promote foreign policy. So I'm not wrong

 

[Lady Whistledown]

Three flights came into Gatwick tonight.

There seemed to be mixed experiences, a lot of which seemed to be down to communication difficulties as neither of the mobile phone networks in Libya have been working properly. Some got hold of the FCO staff easily, some didn't and made their own arrangements.

Two of the chaps I spoke to said there were thousands of Egyptians and Tunisians clamouring to get into Tripoli airport to get flights out, but the local police were just beating the crap out of them and refusing to let them in, while the Europeans were all hustled past and inside.

 

[Barrel of Fun]

Reporter - "How was it out there?"

Passenger - "It was absolute carnage out there. Groups of young men on the rampage. Fights spilling out all over the streets. Bloodied faces. Glass, tables, chairs strewn all over the place. The police had lost control."

Reporter - "And that was central Tripoli, was it?"

Passenger - "Nah mate. Magaluf. Qualla. I'll be back next year"

 

[Sock]

Seems fairly odd there is 700 brits over though. Yes some of them are for work fair enough, but why would you go on holiday to Libya in mid-february? I know it's half term and that but most of the people that I saw on the news were adults. Might as well go to Malta or Greece, beach weather this time of year just about over there.

 

[Barrel of Fun]

There might be quite a few visiting relatives and so on.

 

[Lady Whistledown]

Seems fairly odd there is 700 brits over though. Yes some of them are for work fair enough, but why would you go on holiday to Libya in mid-february? I know it's half term and that but most of the people that I saw on the news were adults. Might as well go to Malta or Greece, beach weather this time of year just about over there.

History mainly: primarily lots of spectacular Roman ruins at Leptis Magna. As a country it's been increasingly promoted as a tourist destination in recent years, since coming in from the international wilderness.

Not quite Magaluf just yet, but for people who like a bit of adventure as well as history, it is- or was- a more and more popular choice.

 

[Lady Whistledown]

 

[KLF]

So I'm not wrong

Agreed, but to a degree the part about trade WAS wrong which is what I was referring to.

Anyway, I agree with your point that it does grate that all these Oil and gas expat employees earning good money (sometimes very good) often tax free choose to work in somewhere like Libya which is run by a looney, then throw their hands up the minute the going gets tough. Trouble is, Libya (for example) provides us with 8.5% of our oil reserves and the Govt are almost as responsible as the oil companies AND they have the resources to slowly get people out. It does grate though when the oil companies make SO much money.

 

[rrruss]

Ok, time for me to chip in!

Not every ex-pat worker in these countries is a megabucks oil worker. I am a teacher and I earn a good wage by local standards but I believe my salary would have me at or below the poverty line in the UK. I'm here in Tunisia, and friends are in Libya, Egypt, Yemen, Bahrain etc not for the money but because we believe we are doing some good and enjoy visiting some different parts of the world. Very few people purposely put themselves in danger. I have turned down jobs in Kabul and Baghdad simply because I value my own safety. I chose Tunisia ahead of Egypt and Libya because I believed it was the safe option. Would you have it that the FCO didn't care when gun battles raged outside my windows and tear gas seeped in through the cracks?

Evacuation flights are not free. We were lucky in that our employer paid for us to get out of Tunisia and also for us to return 3 weeks later. Fellow teachers in Egypt were evacuated the same way but tourists who were evacuated in both of these crises had to pay their own way. The tax payer did not pay for these evacuation flights. The UK government chartered the flights and people had to pay the going rate to get on them as the FCO couldn't be seen to be undercutting the scheduled airlines who carried on flying.

As for Libya, I believe it is the same. The only place tax payers money has been spent on is on HMS Cumberland getting people out of Benghazi where the airport is unusable. Colleagues in that city were unable to get out. They were sat waiting for a flight when the runway was damaged. The only option was for a boat and the Turkish ferries were full of Turks.

There are many ex-pat oil workers in remote desert oilfields who cannot get out and are running out of food and water. Somebody is going to have to do something soon, but whatever is done, the companies will meet most of that expense, if not all of it.

Today is a "day of rage" in Tunisia as protests against the interim government start to build. I'm just getting into the spirit! Grrrrrrrrrr!!!

Russ

 

[Cian]

The Irish Air Corps have been trying to get people out for a few days now - two planes in Malta and occasionally in Tripoli airport - so far all they were allowed take out was a British couple where the woman had just given birth - seems the problem here is solely the Tunisian authorities, not any specific country trying to get people...

 

[Lady Whistledown]

There were a fair few Irish nationals on the flight that arrived back in the UK yesterday.

 

[KLF]

Russ you're right, not every one is an oil worker, there are plenty of people out there such as yourself doing a job driven by something other than money and an expat life. Teachers, such as yourself, aid workers, doctors etc. This is where the Govt should step in - especially if funds are tight. What I was getting at is that the oil companies happily rake in their profits when its all going well, but rely heavily on the Govt when it goes wrong. I'm not saying they do nothing, because they do, it would be disatrous for them if they stood back and washed their hands.

As for the Govt charging for the flights, to a certain extent they have no option but to charge - although as most commercial flights stopped on Tuesday from Libya that arguement kind of falls by the wayside on this one. Many expats also have generous repatriation allowances anyway that will allow them return flights home, so cost is not an issue. Usually those who moan the most to the Daily mail are the holiday makers who did not take out adequate insurance cover (such as those stuck in Egypt).

Anyway, I am not suggesting the Govt stand by the side and leave everyone to fend for themselves, far from it, but those who send themselves out to these areas (and Libya cannot be considered to be a completely "safe" location, whatever anyone says) need to take some responsibility for their actions - whether it be the employer or the individual.

Unfiortunately the FCO are very slow to react and do not seem to learn their lesson - it seems to stem from havign too many layers and not enough decision makers. In this instance Hague should have stepped in to deal with the issue more quickly.

 

[KZNSeagull]

Did the UK Government issue an advice to all UK Nationals in Libya to leave? If so, I would have thought that they have duty to help them.

I am sure that if things went tits up here, all expats would try to take responsibility themselves, but if thousands upon thousands of people are all trying to leave at once by normal means (normal passenger flights and boats), it would take ages to get everybody out. As someone has said, the flights laid on by the government are not free - they are just providing additional services for people wanting to leave asap.