[Music] British v American Punk

[Seagull58]

You can crush us, you can bruise us
But you’ll have to answer to
There’s a rat in the kitchen
What am I gonna do?

That's just wrong on every level

 

[cheshunt seagull]

I voted American punk because, using a wide definition of punk to include Television, Patti Smith etc, I listen to it more these days than British punk. So the vote was cast purely on the basis of the music. However the impact that British punk had on me at the time, leading on to things like Rock Against Racism, was wider, more profound and still affects the way I view many aspects of society and politics.

 

[Crispy Ambulance]

I like some of piL's output, notably Rise, but The Cowboy Song is probably the worst track ever released (B side of The Public Image) and Death to Disco is not far behind. i think young Mr Lydon deliberately released utter dogshit now and again just for attentio,n.

Death Disco is about the death of his mother so his wailing angst reflects that. But, agree, some of their other stuff could be a tad turgid!

 

[Deportivo Seagull]

Motorhead's thrash metal sound owes a lot to punk. A good list of punk bands there. I always enjoyed Crossing the Red Sea with The Adverts. Very punk imo.
Remember If you're in a rut you need to get out of it, out of it...............out if it.

Missed of The Lurkers and Menace.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Alternative Ulster is a wonderful punk song. I love their version of Johnny Was too, better than Bob Marley's original.

Tin Soldiers is quite a song as well.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

In 1979, I could be wrong, I mainly knew the term New Wave. A very wide definition of everything non-heavy metal that immediately followed the initial UK punk explosion. So many examples, XTC, Boomtown Rats, Split Endz, Talking Heads, Police, Jam, Elvis Costello, the original Ultravox, Human League, Simple Minds. With sub categories such as Mod and Electronic.

Over the decades since, writers and punters seem to have refined it further based on timing and sound eg Post Punk.

@Harry Wilson's tackle …. your thoughts?

I always hated the term. It was used to describe anything that wasn't 'punk' (one chord wonder music, ramalama dole Q) but wasn't Boney M, Genesis, Fleetwood Mac or Status Quo. That meant all new music. I never used the term not did anyone I knew.

What happened to me was by 78 I had moved on from punk and given up categorising music, other than 'interesting' or 'shit'. And both categories had a very wide definition. But 'new wave' was very much a term of abuse. Lene Lovic (oo oo oo oo; f*** off); Toyah (itth a mithtery); 30 year old Bob Geldof wearing a school tie. Music for girls who dressed like Lady Di, and boys who thought that punk wasn't proper music.

In fact I stopped using labels entirely. By the time I left the UK in 82, Peel would play Normil Hawaiians, Prince Far I, Dance Society, The Fall, TV21, Modern Eon, Blue Orchids, The Sound, Kevin Coyne, The Raincoats, and so on. I'd been to Billy's and Heaven in London, and 'the scene' did seem to be people trying to look like Steve Strange, and the 'disco' elecropop music was fun, but maybe I'd simply grown out of youth tribes (I was 24) and simply picked whatever I fancied. Then I had it all again, this time without the punch ups in a much more mellow 'alternative' scene in Vancouver.

 

[rebel51]

Agnostic front, madball. Went to a af gig and stood on a balcony bit at the world's end, Camden, trying to find a mellow spot, some bloke jumped over my shoulder (I nearly had heart attack) into the moshpit, where they do a massive circle and go crazy.
I was into the oi scene to(last resort etc) which I still listen to now, and bands like discharge etc.

 

[Weststander]

I always hated the term. It was used to describe anything that wasn't 'punk' (one chord wonder music, ramalama dole Q) but wasn't Boney M, Genesis, Fleetwood Mac or Status Quo. That meant all new music. I never used the term not did anyone I knew.

What happened to me was by 78 I had moved on from punk and given up categorising music, other than 'interesting' or 'shit'. And both categories had a very wide definition. But 'new wave' was very much a term of abuse. Lene Lovic (oo oo oo oo; f*** off); Toyah (itth a mithtery); 30 year old Bob Geldof wearing a school tie. Music for girls who dressed like Lady Di, and boys who thought that punk wasn't proper music.

In fact I stopped using labels entirely. By the time I left the UK in 82, Peel would play Normil Hawaiians, Prince Far I, Dance Society, The Fall, TV21, Modern Eon, Blue Orchids, The Sound, Kevin Coyne, The Raincoats, and so on. I'd been to Billy's and Heaven in London, and 'the scene' did seem to be people trying to look like Steve Strange, and the 'disco' elecropop music was fun, but maybe I'd simply grown out of youth tribes (I was 24) and simply picked whatever I fancied. Then I had it all again, this time without the punch ups in a much more mellow 'alternative' scene in Vancouver.

Peel touched upon something similar in his autobio. He lost with their anger his audience in the mid 70’s when he started playing Punk, then a few short years later diehard Punks who thought he sold out. All he strove to do was give kids a chance who were creating good music.

[Heaven would’ve been my thing, for the music alone, wish I’d visited. The dance music …. not Duran or Spandau!]

 

[Kosh]

Various Artists: Blank Generation - A Story Of US/Canadian Punk & It's Aftershocks 1975-1981, 5CD Book Set

• 5CD set bringing a comprehensive, big-tent look at the early years of punk rock in the US and Canada. • Over six hours of music. • Includes benchmark tracks by the scene’s most influential bands plus many rare singles making their first appearance on CD.

www.cherryred.co.uk

Good present for those who love punk…

Of which I’m not one, but I could see why this would interest some lol

 

[The Clamp]

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Agnostic front, madball. Went to a af gig and stood on a balcony bit at the world's end, Camden, trying to find a mellow spot, some bloke jumped over my shoulder (I nearly had heart attack) into the moshpit, where they do a massive circle and go crazy.
I was into the oi scene to(last resort etc) which I still listen to now, and bands like discharge etc.

Now we’re taking. I got into the hardcore crossover scene back in the 80s, stuff like Agnostic Front, Circle Jerks, DRI, SOD, Suicidal Tendencies, The Crumbsuckers from the US and stuff like Napalm Death, Carcass, Bolt Thrower, Extreme Noise Terror in the UK.

I saw all the big thrash bands of the time as well.

 

[The Clamp]

Saw Soulfly at Concorde 2 a few years ago. An insanely small venue for them. It was chaos.

Went to see a Misfits gig at Concorde 2 which then turned into a Black Flag show. Was chuffed with that .

Didn’t really like Rollins era Black Flag but got really into The Rollins Band. Some of the best gigs I’ve ever been to. Quite like his spoken word too.

BF were the DIY ethic personified.

 

[Insel affe]

Now we’re taking. I got into the hardcore crossover scene back in the 80s, stuff like Agnostic Front, Circle Jerks, DRI, SOD, Suicidal Tendencies, The Crumbsuckers from the US and stuff like Napalm Death, Carcass, Bolt Thrower, Extreme Noise Terror in the UK.

I saw all the big thrash bands of the time as well.

I saw Napalm Death in about 85/86 playing at working mens club in Wigan, put on by Alan from Alans records who was big into that sound.
Love a bit of Oi, The Business, Discharge, etc

 

[Stato]

No one has mentioned Stiff Little Fingers yet.

Growing up my kids were big on pop punk- The kind of stuff that was always being played on Kerrang TV - Green Day, Blink 182, Good Charlotte, All Time Low, Sum 41, The All American Rejects etc. Being the patronising old dad that I am, whenever it appeared, and it would appear very often in various guises, I would always point out that what they called 'the pop punk riff' was from 'Alternative Ulster.'* They are a band that aren't hugely acknowledged but their influence quietly resonated across the Atlantic.


* - Yes, I'm sure it goes back much further to blues musicians, but I don't think that 90s suburban kids in America were getting it from Son House.

 

[SeagullsoverLondon]

Motorhead's thrash metal sound owes a lot to punk. A good list of punk bands there. I always enjoyed Crossing the Red Sea with The Adverts. Very punk imo.
Remember If you're in a rut you need to get out of it, out of it...............out if it.

I think AC|DCs first album in Australia (not officially released here I think) was punk, but by their second or third album had similarly morphed into heavy metal.

 

[Stato]

Here's a good example of that SLF riff:

1 minute 22 after Jake shouts 'Alright Now!'



And here's Green Day doing it. First appears at 42 seconds after the intro:



Someone with a bit more musical education can probably tell me whether it has a name.

 

[BN9 BHA]

You can crush us, you can bruise us
But you’ll have to answer to
There’s a rat in the kitchen
What am I gonna do?

 

[BLOCK F]

I was too young to see the 76/77 gigs, but I think you’ve nailed it. The NYD didn’t have a raw punk sound or aura at all, they weren’t ground breaking with a new music that shook the establishment.

Ha, I think I am too OLD to make an informed comment, but here goes. Uninformed, I thought it was all a racket after my golden music appreciation period of the “60’s.
Old git and I don’t care/mind / notice

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Various Artists: Blank Generation - A Story Of US/Canadian Punk & It's Aftershocks 1975-1981, 5CD Book Set

• 5CD set bringing a comprehensive, big-tent look at the early years of punk rock in the US and Canada. • Over six hours of music. • Includes benchmark tracks by the scene’s most influential bands plus many rare singles making their first appearance on CD.

www.cherryred.co.uk

Good present for those who love punk…

Of which I’m not one, but I could see why this would interest some lol

The Residents? The Cramps? I like them both but cramming them into a box labeled 'punk' is sheer idiocy.

Edit, ditto Television and Devo. I hate Devo. f***ing American art school wankers being 'kooky'. I remember going to see the first UK screening of Eraserhead at Screen on the Green and they showed Devo film to start. Christ.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

I love the evolution of JD/NO, the band of my youth. Post punk JD, followed by early 80’s NO with a more synth based sound and Gillian, then the NO you despise. To me brave, mostly magical. My favourite NO album is Movement, no one ever selects that!

Surely Movement is the very New Order output that he does like, and feels was betrayed!? Half of it was written while Ian Curtis was still around, wasn't it?

I share your feelings on the evolution though - I didn't mind them morphing from the dark, heavy stuff, to the electro-synth stuff - purely because it was bloody GOOD. Surely everybody loves Blue Monday, Everything's Gone Green, Thieves Like Us... and for the next few years right through to the likes of Bizarre Love Triangle.

I think True Faith was a bit of a turning point - I love it personally - but can see how it could have been a step too far for some 'cool' folk who had followed the band since the start - it is VERY POP - they were inches from turning into the Pet Shop Boys at this point.