British troops in Afghanistan: stay put or bring them home?

[pork pie]

special forces and air only. No more sitting ducks on the ground.

 

[perth seagull]

Bring them home. This unwinnable war is costing billions in taxpayers' money and needlessly killing lots of British soldiers. And all we do is get criticised by the Yanks on top of this. Let them fight their own war.

 

[Spiros]

'the job' is now to get the Afghans sufficiently trained so that they can police their own country. It's a bit like Iraq was - I wasn't happy about us going there in the first place but now we're there we can't just up sticks and go as that will leave a power vacuum. The winners of that would probably be the Taliban and the main losers would be the Afghan people themselves. Then once again we'll be back to square one and it will have all been a waste of time and lives. I think we have to see it through as best we can and get out as soon as conditions allow. Don't forget, the Afghan government want us there now but also want us to go soon too.

 

[glasfryn]

a few days ago I would have said stay
but since mr shameron's bit of arse licking in the USA it does seem that they are not all that appreciated by him or the yanks and as there is no oil there I think our boys will be shot and blow up for what so the women don't have to walk 10 paces behind her owner.
well I'm sorry we have more important things to worry about at home so they can fight their own battles and if the yanks and any others want to continue to do this then so be it.
Iraq was somewhat different as Saddam was a meglamaniac who tried desperately to wipe out nations and threatened to try and wipe us out,a thread that was/could never be fullfilled

yes bring them home ASAP

 

[ROKERITE]

as an ex squaddie, stay finish the job. dont forsake the lives that have been lost, other wise their lives have been in vain, and before someone ask's ...yes i would go , and my nephew has volunteered for 3 commando training so he can go , be proud of our boys, even if you dont agree with the conflict, our troops need our support. .................mente et manu....that gives away my old regiment lol :albion1:

I agree with you, but unfortunately the air of defeatism and incidents like the publication of confidential documents, lead me to fear the cut and run lobby will prevail.
Iraq was a disaster, and the muddying of the waters leading to so many bracketing Afghanistan and Iraq together was tragic. Ofcourse there are massive doubts over whether any form of victory can be achieved, but I believe what the NATO allies are attempting to do is honourable and admirable. Despite what the cynics might argue I don't see this as a war of conquest or empire building (unlike the nineteenth century invasions). The Taliban are an evil, murderous and barbaric group and the idea of them returning to power in Afghanistan, and spreading their influence still further into Pakistan, should surely petrify all of us.

 

[Nibble]

Haha! If you think we are leaving Afghanistan anytime soon you are very much mistaken. It's too big a business for goverments to care if a few grunts die.

 

[daveinprague]

Dont see it as 'cutting and running' at all.
We have been supporting the USA in their war for several years to the detriment of the countries finances and to the lives of British service men and women.
There is NO NEED for British troops to be there. The American military machine can EASILY cover the loss of British and other nations help.
If they cant, they can employ conscription.
Our 'token' force to show the American people that it is a 'just cause', because other nations have joined their coalition is nonesense.
Support the troops by avoiding their lives being lost in an unwinnable war.

I

 

[Mellotron]

Bring them home ASAP and save the futile waste of any more brave men's lives and limbs.

The concept of 'stay til the job is done' is totally bogus. There is no 'job' and there is no 'done'. There's just mounting and unsustainable casualties. The Afghans will revert to being tribal as soon as we withdraw. And why not? It is their country after all. None of our business in the first place. Just another Vietnam.

This is shocking. I agree with every single word of your post.

 

[Badger]

Not only is it a pointless war that we aren't going to win but it is costing taxpayers billions of pounds at a time when we really can't afford it. I honestly can't see what we are going to achieve by continuing to fight apart from an ever increasing total of needless deaths.

 

[cheshunt seagull]

Bring them home.

A glance at the history books shows the futility of trying to win a conflict in Afghanistan and the direct link between security at home and this conflict looks more tenuous by the day. It is dreadful to think that pulling out might lead to many families believing that their sons and husbands died for nothing, but that is no reason for even more people to lose their loved ones.

 

[Pavilionaire]

It's going to take many, many years to create an Afghan National Army of sufficient size and professionalism to be able to even contain the insurgency. A commitment for another 5 years could mean another 1,000 British servicemen and women killed, maybe more.

Increasingly there will be joint military operations and the novice Afghan army are bound to f*** up, but NATO forces will probably end up being blamed.

There doesn't seem to be much support coming from the Afghan people or the Middle East in general for us being there either.

That said, if we pull out now the war will have been lost and it sends a positive signal to every other terrorist or insurgent out there that we're on the run.

I expect NATO will begin withdrawing next year but there's no doubt the infrastructure won't be in place to keep the peace and the place will descend into a tribal free-for-all.

 

[patcham lad]

our lad's have put their asse's on the line for long enough - it's time to come home!

 

[Acker79]

and as there is no oil there

Isn't there a recently discovered diamond mine or some sort of jewel mine there?

Edit: U.S. Identifies Vast Mineral Riches in Afghanistan - NYTimes.com

 

[essbee]

The problem is that, as with Vietnam, the Govts. can't be seen to lose face by total withdrawal, even with protests etc -

It was tv footage of the horrors in Vietnam that largely turned the tide in favour of public opinion to get out, with the scenes of sheer chaos in Hanoi as we all know.

I can't see that happening in Afganistan.

 

[ROKERITE]

The problem is that, as with Vietnam, the Govts. can't be seen to lose face by total withdrawal, even with protests etc -

It was tv footage of the horrors in Vietnam that largely turned the tide in favour of public opinion to get out, with the scenes of sheer chaos in Hanoi as we all know.

I can't see that happening in Afganistan.

Democracies are at a distinct disadvantage when it comes to fighting wars, however just those wars may be.
I hope you're right, and that it doesn't happen in Afghanistan.

 

[Emily's Mum]

Time to get out. It would not be dishonouring those who died there, but the war is unwinnable. They have different morals to us - they do not fight the same war. It has always been true that an Afghan is your friend as long as your hand is in your pocket, and buying compliance only works when you keep paying. We are never going to enforce new tribal rules in 4 years, their hatred runs way too deep for that. The war is being fought on too many fronts - whilst the current set of leaked documents look damning, it is always better to remember that we have the luxury of reading them from a nice safe computer chair - not when you have to make a decision wedged into the wheel arch of an armoured vehicle with ordnance flying around and an enemy who don't wear a uniform.

I have to say I agree. I shouldn't, but I do.

In my office I have a whiteboard. At the top is a list of the broken men, at the bottom is a list of the broken families. At any one time you are looking at sums in excess of millions, not just now, but for a very long time to come.

However, every day I am humbled by the courage & commitment of the men and their families. As long as they are prepared to die for this, or any other cause, I will be there supporting them.

 

[mcshane in the 79th]

Agree with BoF's comment about not knowing enough to make a decision. I don't know what the target is now and I don't know the full effect of what the troops leaving will be. I can't simply say, get them out as much as I can say, stay and finish whatever it is they want to finish.

I just find it all rather uncomfortable.

 

[Two Professors]

The border with Pakistan is too long to defend with the troops we've got on the ground.Unless the government of Pakistan stops its support of the Taliban/Al Quaeda,the operation cannot succeed on a military level.As the USA military found in Vietnam,trying to fight a war under political control is like a boxer trying to fight with his left hand tied to his right foot!Withdrawal to a more defendable area,and shutting off the flow of weapons from Iran,might help stabilise the country enough for Karzai's merry men to take over.Apologies for being militarily boring on the Albion's premier site.Inigo is the second coming

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

Bring them home ASAP and save the futile waste of any more brave men's lives and limbs.

The concept of 'stay til the job is done' is totally bogus. There is no 'job' and there is no 'done'. There's just mounting and unsustainable casualties. The Afghans will revert to being tribal as soon as we withdraw. And why not? It is their country after all. None of our business in the first place. Just another Vietnam.

This. My nephew goes out next April. If anyone could state how we measure when the job is done we could at least try and understand the objectives. However - no-one can.

 

[bullshit detector]

Can anyone explain to me why it was wrong for the Russians to be in Afghanistan (Thatcher wanted us to boycott the Russian Olympics cos of it, remember?) but it's right for us to be there?