Brigton Micropub - latest

[The Large One]

Out of interest - and I'm not involved, so it's not really any of my business, just curious - but, what is the basic philosophy for you guys. Presumably you're not looking to make a living out of it, just run it as a hobby yes ? I mean, a pub, let alone a small one is barely enough to support one owner, as far as I know.

At present, we're speaking in broad, open-ended terms - mainly of a concept.

I don't anyone has looked at figures in earnest. Once that happens, I think a few more decisions as to where this goes can be taken.

 

[Franks Wild Years]

Good luck guys, it's a great idea keep us updated.

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

Shit! I've just gone and put an offer in for the King & Queen; have notified Carling that I'll need a monster delivery of Euro-Fizz and Jaegermeisters; have Sky on hold as I order every sports package under the Sun, and Dixons are delivering 8 x 128inch flat screen tvs!

Next you'll be telling me to send back the 10 fruit machines and 2 pool tables, and that my "Wear as little as you can and get a free vodka shot promotion" isn't worth pursuing! Shall I send back the Jessie J CDs as well?

Those TV screens might be too small , there is a 152 inch plasma TV being made available commercially in a short while.

 

[fork me]

The place hasn't even got off the ground and you are suggesting ways for it to lose money. Sorry but pubs with live music very rarely make money, the people that make money out of them is the musicians especially if it is a group.

What absolute nonsense. Pubs with live music make money IF they do it properly.

I speak as someone who ran a part time promotions business in Brighton for several years.

 

[fork me]

One of my old bosses insisted that we took 6 x a normal non music night if we put on music but I argued with him that the music made people aware of the pub and they came in at other times. His argument was that if we would have taken £300 we needed to take £1800 to make the same profit taking into account the fee for the group, the extra staff wages to serve the increased number of customers and the beer etc to sell them and still finish up with the same net profit. I don't know who was right but he sold his company with 8 pubs for £10m and retired at 50 years old and I worked until I was 60 without making that sort of money so he must have done something right.

As I said, it depends HOW you do live music. If you pay bands through aganecies etc, your friend is right.

To make money (depending on the size of the venue).

1) Hire it to promoters, they pay the band, they pay for the sound equipment, they take the door money and the risk.
2) If you're NOT planning on charging for entry, get local bands who need the gigs on a bar percentage. You don't sell more beer than usual they don't get paid. They take the risk. Bands that can't fill a pub you don't want anyway.

When I was promoting I worked with tiny venues (like the old Underground under Swifts and the old Free Butt), medium sized venues (like the old Richmond and Concorde) and occasionally larger ones (like the East Wing).

 

[fork me]

More and more are closing down or as another poster pointed out not paying bands. I am talking of the 90s as I retired in 2003 during midweek an average single musician charged between £70-£100 a duo £130 - £200 obviously depending on popularity etc and bands £200+ they charged more at weekends and in fact most of the people I knew wouldn't do a pub on a Saturday evening because working mens clubs paid more money as they were not so profit concious. and were more concerned with keeping the members happy.erhap the musicians have realised that a pub is no longer a cash cow for them.

The latest music pub to close and await demolition is The Kings Head in Burgess Hill which has had music on Friday and Saturday evenings for years.

One of the best value for money musicians we used was Keith Hayman from Cuckfield, that was when he is not acting as keyboard player/musical director for Cliff Richard or on the road with 10cc or other bands that he plays in as a session musician. We used a number of single acts and duos that came from Brighton.

You were booking the wrong acts. Look around you can get them a LOT cheaper than that. Hell, in the early 90s I only paid 999 £200 and they were nationally known.

Some pubs though, especially ones from big chains pay silly amounts. One pub in London used to book me once a month to DJ through an agent, paid me £250 (I have no idea what the agent was getting) and they were dead, partly because they didn't really advertise that they were doing it. For busy pubs, or pubs that are busier with the DJ, it's worth it. Some London pubs we worked in took a fortune at weekends, but others, in different areas were just throwing money away.

 

[BensGrandad]

We don't want to buy a pub. We want to start a MICROPUB in a small disused premises, most likely a shop

My suggestion was based on the fact that an existing pub had the basic essentials and you could still go down your route of brewing on site etc rather than incur the cost of changing a butchers shop into a pub plus of course most butchers shops would hardly be big enough to have a pub in that would make enough money to keep all those that have invested happy unless as said it was just a fun hobby thing.

This was how Tim Martin started Wetherspoons he found large premises usually old supermarkets or furniture stores like Courts and changed them but in so doing allowed £1m for the conversion.

 

[Bozza]

My suggestion was based on the fact that an existing pub had the basic essentials and you could still go down your route of brewing on site etc rather than incur the cost of changing a butchers shop into a pub plus of course most butchers shops would hardly be big enough to have a pub in that would make enough money to keep all those that have invested happy unless as said it was just a fun hobby thing.

This was how Tim Martin started Wetherspoons he found large premises usually old supermarkets or furniture stores like Courts and changed them but in so doing allowed £1m for the conversion.

You really need to go back to the beginning and read the various links.

One of the 'models' being looked at has room for about 15 people. There is no plan at all to brew on-site.

 

[BensGrandad]

What absolute nonsense. Pubs with live music make money IF they do it properly.

I speak as someone who ran a part time promotions business in Brighton for several years.

Again you are talking of large pubs as music venues I was talking of your little local that has music on 1 or 2 nights a week and I can assure you that if we booked groups through an agent in Brighton we paid the top end of the scale I quoted. If we booked them ourselves through reccomendation people like Big Jim Sullivan we paid around the £80 - £90 for a Tuesday or Wednesday evening. I am trying to think of some of the acts we had, remember there was one couple something and Stone possibly Street & Stone from Brighton. The micro pub as mentioned on here when somebody suggested it being a music venue would definitely fall into the small category I would have thought.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Out of interest - and I'm not involved, so it's not really any of my business, just curious - but, what is the basic philosophy for you guys. Presumably you're not looking to make a living out of it, just run it as a hobby yes ? I mean, a pub, let alone a small one is barely enough to support one owner, as far as I know.

The general feeling within the group which met last night is that we wish to start a micropub along the lines of the one opened in Herne. The Herne pub holds 15 people and has limited opening hours. I cannot speak for the Herne chap but the general feeling is we wish to run it on a hobby/enthusiast/fun/maybe-learn-something/community basis so no we are not all hoping to make a living..break even is the aim.

Watch this space.

 

[narly101]

Watching this space, as very much interested in how you guys get on.

 

[fork me]

Again you are talking of large pubs as music venues I was talking of your little local that has music on 1 or 2 nights a week and I can assure you that if we booked groups through an agent in Brighton we paid the top end of the scale I quoted. If we booked them ourselves through reccomendation people like Big Jim Sullivan we paid around the £80 - £90 for a Tuesday or Wednesday evening. I am trying to think of some of the acts we had, remember there was one couple something and Stone possibly Street & Stone from Brighton. The micro pub as mentioned on here when somebody suggested it being a music venue would definitely fall into the small category I would have thought.

The Free Butt was tiny!

But, no, I wouldn't put music in a micropub, but a small pub can as long as they're not daft enough to pay over the odds getting acts from agencies!

 

[BensGrandad]

The general feeling within the group which met last night is that we wish to start a micropub along the lines of the one opened in Herne. The Herne pub holds 15 people and has limited opening hours. I cannot speak for the Herne chap but the general feeling is we wish to run it on a hobby/enthusiast/fun/maybe-learn-something/community basis so no we are not all hoping to make a living..break even is the aim.

Watch this space.

That changes the outlook and concept that some have posted on here totally. I wish you luck in your proposed venture and will watch with great interest to any developemets.

 

[BensGrandad]

Sorry I misunderstood and thought the basic idea was based on the idea of the original firkin chain started by David Bruce of brewing in the cellar and then somebody mentioned making it a music venue and that was where I got side tracked about music in pubs making money.

 

[CHAPPERS]

This thread is being derailed.

 

[The Large One]

This thread is being derailed.

Quite.

I didn't get there until 9.30.

What it seemed to be was the exchanges of ideas, concepts and practicalities - and how to go about them. The first thing it was decided to do was go to the Butchers Arms in Herne Bay and speak to the bloke about what he did and how he did it.

Another thing discussed was how many people would be prepared to chip in with time and effort, and what skills and talents were required etc. We believed NSC ought to be able to account for every kind of tradesman required, but that's taking the whole project to a wider audience. The right property and location were discussions for later.

Then we talked about how many people should be involved, what sort of set-up (business / committee / co-operative etc), how to attract investment etc.

So - a fairly loose discussion bringing together very similar ideas.

Everyone's ideas are welcome, including a trip to Herne Bay...

 

[Worthingite]

Very interesting....

http://www.worthingherald.co.uk/community/application-for-micro-pub-approved-1-4214668

 

[Biffer]

Seems it has to shut at 8pm. What use is that to any pub?
It'll have a steady trade of boring alcoholic idiots throughout the day but when the real money's made on a Friday and Saturday night it'll be shut.
Hopeless.

 

[Hamilton]

Seems it has to shut at 8pm. What use is that to any pub?
It'll have a steady trade of boring alcoholic idiots throughout the day but when the real money's made on a Friday and Saturday night it'll be shut.
Hopeless.

Sounds great to meal. The real money can wander down Montague Street and buy itself some alcopops whilst shouting inane obscenities at like-minded idiots as they combat the meaningless hip hop music pounded out so that any risk of interesting conversation is nullified.

I thank you.

 

[Hamilton]

Sounds great to meal. The real money can wander down Montague Street and buy itself some alcopops whilst shouting inane obscenities at like-minded idiots as they combat the meaningless hip hop music pounded out so that any risk of interesting conversation is nullified.

I thank you.

Even sounds great to 'me' I mean.