Brighton - The First Smoke-Free City?

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Lush

Mods' Pet
From today's Independent

Brighton's locals quietly fume over plans for smoke-free pubs

By Matthew Beard and Anna Petherick


The Victorian seaside resort of Brighton may be blessed with a Californian-style climate at the moment, but it is not ready to accept the American states draconian anti-smoking laws just yet.

That was the unequivocal message emerging yesterday from the city's bars, clubs and cafés, that are being targeted in a plan drawn up by the council and health officials to stop smoking in public places.

Emboldened by zero-tolerance messages from Whitehall, local politicians have gone as far as to propose a ban, with £60 fines for non-compliance, as part of the strategy to reduce passive smoking.

With Manchester, Newcastle and Birmingham also vying to become Britain's first smoke-free city, Brighton would benefit as much from its image as it would from its health record.

With public-run establishments such as theatres, museums and public transport already smoke free, the entertainment industry fears it has become a sitting duck.

Sat in the air-conditioned comfort of Envy, the city's biggest gay club, bar worker Rupert John feared he and his colleagues may become victims of political ambition.

Mr John, a smoker, said: "It's as if becoming a non-smoking city is the next frontier and a chance for publicising yourself as having the cleanest air in Britain. It might be good for tourism, but it would hurt trade.''

He pointed out that such policies may suit the permanently warmer climes in the United States but would be a nightmare for clubbers in the English winter. "You couldn't even light a cigarette out there in December, let alone smoke it,'' he said, pointing outside.

Already the venue only allows smoking after 5pm out of consideration to diners, but a ban would "seriously hurt'' business on a Saturday night, when the club fills to its 500 capacity.

At The Standard, a cavernous pub on Ship Street owned by brewing giant Scottish and Newcastle, an American bar worker, Karen Casey, admitted that her lungs had not been the same since she started pulling pints there, but was more concerned about upholding her principles.

"Of course there are health concerns but it is one of the last refuges for smokers and it should stay that way. My parents have worked in a bar in Boston [Massachusetts] all their lives. A ban there just means people go to the nearest town which is more tolerant of smoking.''

As she is called back behind the bar, her manager refers all further enquiries to the brewery who are part of an impressive industry lobby quietly but persuasively putting the brakes on any legislation.

Owen Smith, the owner of the Carousel fish restaurant, said a ban would improve public health and may boost takings.

Mr Smith, who opened the restaurant 11 years ago, said: "Although I've been a smoker, I appreciate it's not much fun in a restaurant. Ten years ago it was different but the industry is accepting that smokers will be marginalised and so it won't be a big deal if it's banned. It could even bring more customers in if we get written up in the tour guides as Britain's first smoke-free city.''

Des Turner, Labour MP for Brighton Kemptown, believes public opinion would be in favour of a ban. A recent poll by Mori found that 53 per cent of people were in favour. A spokeswoman for Brighton & Hove council said: "Brighton & Hove has been a tolerant place and non-smokers would like to see a ban on smoking one day. But in the meantime they are prepared to tolerate smokers if they keep to designated areas.'' Meanwhile, officials will be consulting their counterparts in Birmingham and watching developments in the Irish Republic, where a smoking ban is to be introduced next year. As one Brighton publican said: "If it can get past the pub trade over there it can surely work anywhere.''
_
 






REDLAND

Active member
Jul 7, 2003
9,443
At the foot of the downs
This has been bubbling along for ages now, its starting to ring similar to the open 24 hours rumour that happened a few years ago. I hope it does I've just given up and it would make getting pissed much more enjoyable with out constatnt reminders, but thats just me eh ?
 


Lush said:


At The Standard, a cavernous pub on Ship Street owned by brewing giant Scottish and Newcastle, an American bar worker, Karen Casey, admitted that her lungs had not been the same since she started pulling pints there, but was more concerned about upholding her principles.


_

The Standard in ship street? Last time I looked it wasn't there!
 






REDLAND

Active member
Jul 7, 2003
9,443
At the foot of the downs
Its in West Street and shite it is too !!
 


Jul 5, 2003
857
BN11
Banning smoking in pubs and clubs is, I think, a waste of political power, an affront to people's free choice and another step in the wrong direction. I'm all for non-smoking in restaurants but you can't take away people's rights to smoke while they're having a drink. By all means have a few smoke-free venues to give people the choice but a blanket ban on smoking in bars is ridiculous. Anyway, if a few quid was spent on decent ventilation then the smoke wouldn't be an issue.

By the way, I don't smoke, so this isn't the rant of a militant smoker who feels he is being edged out.
 


JJ McClure

Go Jags
Jul 7, 2003
11,113
Hassocks
Dropkick Turnip said:
Banning smoking in pubs and clubs is, I think, a waste of political power, an affront to people's free choice and another step in the wrong direction. I'm all for non-smoking in restaurants but you can't take away people's rights to smoke while they're having a drink. By all means have a few smoke-free venues to give people the choice but a blanket ban on smoking in bars is ridiculous. Anyway, if a few quid was spent on decent ventilation then the smoke wouldn't be an issue.

By the way, I don't smoke, so this isn't the rant of a militant smoker who feels he is being edged out.

As another non smoker thats my thoughts exactly. Drinking and smoking do tend to go hand in hand. It doesn't bother me and never has. People should be able to eat in smoke free restaurants, and the majority these days have a either a no smoking policy or a no smoking area. it'd be PC gone mad.
 




Gwylan

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2003
31,841
Uffern
I agree that a blanket ban is unnecessary - although I'd like to see smoking banned wherever food is served. And on dance floors, too many clothes ruined by wayward fags.

Better ventilation in pubs is the answer (and I speak as a lifelong non-smoker).
 


Jul 5, 2003
857
BN11
Gwylan said:
........and on dance floors, too many clothes ruined by wayward fags.

Agreed-there's nothing more annoying but that just shows how lacking in common sense some people are. Not sure if a ban on smoking or just a decent upbringing is required here.
 






What I find interesting is that the credit (or blame) for this bit of kite-flying is being given to the elected politicians of the City Council.

In fact it's NOT the City Council that came up with this idea, but the (unelected) health authority - who have an obvious health agenda to pursue.

But this is no more significant than any other piece of self-interested lobbying. They've just chosen to focus their campaign on a particular place.

No doubt the RSPCA think we should ban animal neglect in Hove. And the Brighton and Hove Bus Company support bus lanes in Brighton.

Mind you, BHAFC support a stadium at Falmer - and I'm all in favour of that.

:)
 


Brovion

In my defence, I was left unsupervised.
NSC Patron
Jul 6, 2003
19,888
I'm a non-smoker. I hate going to badly-ventilated pubs and coming home stinking of smoke - to say nothing of the (possible) damage to my lungs.

But banning smoking is the most disgusting manifestation of the safety-first, don't-polish-wooden-floors, dont-drink, don't-run-on-the-pavement, go-to-bed-by-nine-thirty nanny-state interference in people's personal choice that I have ever heard.

We've got to do something about this culture of safety. Bring back slides and roundabouts! My kids don't go to play parks because they are so anodyne.

(Sorry, different rant)
 


hart's shirt

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2003
11,087
Kitbag in Dubai
As a non-smoker, I've got to admit that a smoke-free pub or bar would be a definite attraction. Having said that, I wouldn't go there if one of my friends who smoked felt unhappy about going there. Whilst I wouldn't be in favour of an outright ban across the board - Brighton's always been attractively laissez-faire in many different respects - the chance to have a drink in a smoke-free environment would be welcome.

Please let's not go down the route of America though:

Police officer: "What's that you've got sticking out of your pocket?"
Civilian: "Why officer, it's a loaded Colt 45."
Police officer: "That's all right then, I thought it was a packet of Marlboro Lights."
 




berkshire seagull

New member
Jul 5, 2003
5,707
reading
Its a complete joke as who has the right to tell people not to smoke.
This country is getting worse by the year:nono: :nono: :nono: :nono:

What next no one is allowed on the streets after 10pm mmmm!:nono:
 


JEM

New member
Jul 5, 2003
686
Bevendean
The PC meter has already swung so far in one direction it's off the scale. And most of it is just ridiculous.

Golliwogs. Racist? I think not. My Mum told me she used to have a black dolly years ago and all the kids up her street wanted it, as they all had white ones. Years later in steps PC, and it's "you can't have a golliwog, it's racist. And take them off those jam jars." No one ever found them racist before the PC brigade poked their noses in, they're the REAL racists for putting in the dividing line.

Victims of crime. Hundreds of support groups exist for perpetrators of crime, particularly violent, but virtually none for victims. And very often the offender has the upper hand due to PC. Take rape accusations. The accused name is freely given out to the public regardless of whether they're guilty or not, and in many cases an innocent man's life is destroyed whilst a vindictive woman gets away un-named and unshamed.

Banning smoking. Fair enough that smoking should be stopped, or at least segregated, in places like restaurants, offices and cinemas. But in establishments such as pubs it's part of the ambience. You can't just disown a whole, very large, tax paying section of the public so we can become just that little bit more like America. It's just not cricket.

Asylum seekers. Granted there are some genuine cases. But the PC laws that currently govern us make also make us the softest touch for the hundreds and thousands of dossers that swarm into this country and take benefits away from the people they rightly belong to. The Sangatte affair just highlights how spineless the government is concerning this subject.

And if the Wimbledon women's tennis players want parity in the pay stakes them let them play 5 sets as opposed to 3. Most of them are built like men so it would be no great hardship.

Political correctness? It's bollocks.
 




Jul 5, 2003
857
BN11
JEM said:
The PC meter has already swung so far in one direction it's off the scale. And most of it is just ridiculous.

Golliwogs. Racist? I think not. My Mum told me she used to have a black dolly years ago and all the kids up her street wanted it, as they all had white ones. Years later in steps PC, and it's "you can't have a golliwog, it's racist. And take them off those jam jars." No one ever found them racist before the PC brigade poked their noses in, they're the REAL racists for putting in the dividing line.

Victims of crime. Hundreds of support groups exist for perpetrators of crime, particularly violent, but virtually none for victims. And very often the offender has the upper hand due to PC. Take rape accusations. The accused name is freely given out to the public regardless of whether they're guilty or not, and in many cases an innocent man's life is destroyed whilst a vindictive woman gets away un-named and unshamed.

Banning smoking. Fair enough that smoking should be stopped, or at least segregated, in places like restaurants, offices and cinemas. But in establishments such as pubs it's part of the ambience. You can't just disown a whole, very large, tax paying section of the public so we can become just that little bit more like America. It's just not cricket.

Asylum seekers. Granted there are some genuine cases. But the PC laws that currently govern us make also make us the softest touch for the hundreds and thousands of dossers that swarm into this country and take benefits away from the people they rightly belong to. The Sangatte affair just highlights how spineless the government is concerning this subject.

And if the Wimbledon women's tennis players want parity in the pay stakes them let them play 5 sets as opposed to 3. Most of them are built like men so it would be no great hardship.

Political correctness? It's bollocks.

Best post I've read for ages. Nice one JEM! :bowdown:
 




Sonic

Spiky little bugger!
Jul 6, 2003
889
Patcham
As someone has already said, this idea was proposed by someone at the local health authority. Hardly surprising as their job is to promote health.

To put my cards on the table from the start, I am what I call a social smoker. I smoke when I'm having a few beers, but if I don't go to the pub for a week, I won't smoke for a week. A cigarette just goes nicely with a pint.

I think this would be a terrible idea, especially in Brighton. A lot of my mates smoke, and I can't see us all going and standing outside a pub 4 times an hour to have a fag. As a result, I reckon we would either drink at home, or more likely go to pubs just outside the exclusion zone, taking our non-smoking friends and partners with us too.
There are so many pubs in Brighton, and I can imagine that many of them would suffer financially as a result of such a ban. I expect there are landlords who smoke and would be pretty pissed off too.

Who would police the ban anyway?
What if you flaunted it refused to pay?
How would they prove you had commited the offence in the first place if you denied it?

Car fumes are also detrimental to other people's health, but no-one's banned cars yet. I suppose that's next.
 


Stumpy Tim

Well-known member
Sonic said:
Car fumes are also detrimental to other people's health, but no-one's banned cars yet. I suppose that's next.

Though I agree that a smoking ban is OTT, this argument always winds me up. There is no comparison between car fumes & smoking. Cars are essential in the modern day, and 99% of the population use them. Even those who don't actually benefit from them because they add signifanctly to the economy.

Smoking is a pointless exercise that provides nothing more than killing people & draining the NHS.
 


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