Brighton Station car park £90 Parking fine.

[BensGrandad]

To date I have won 5 cases for members of my family against such companies as these and in each case the company have given in and admitted defeat and not chased the payments. I am now chasing one of the companies for invoices issued charging them for replying to their letters at a rate of £25 per letter. Whether I will win that I am not certain but for the cost of a small claims court it is worth it for the fun of it all, and there is always the possibility when the court papers are issued they will pay up rather than take it to court and incur legal expense to defend it.

 

[CorgiRegisteredFriend]

I once parked in a B and Q car park and stayed over the three hour limit. My number plate was recorded on entering and leaving and I received a so called 'penalty notice'. The parking company wanted around £70 reduced to a smaller amount if paid within two weeks. So many people told me not to pay but I was dubious and did not want to face an increased charge. Anyway- to cut a long story short I did not cough up and after several letters- all of which I ignored I never heard a thing.

 

[saltdeanseagull1]

I am not sure what your arguement is - you said yourself that you were happy to use the pay and display and i assume if you didnt pay that you would expect a ticket and a fine. Everyone seems to accept the premise that you have to pay to park your car in most car parks especially station ones. If you dont you run the risk of getting a fine. Whether you want to pay it or not or you feel it is some way unjust is a completely different arguement. I would say 99.9% of the population understand the parking payment transaction. I dont accept its entrapment when you have a variety of ways to pay all clearly sign posted. I guess we all have choices park and pay no stress, park and dont pay stress. Simples really.

As I said when I got there the barriers were not working, I did not see any obvious signs and the booth outside not manned by anyone and the usual pay machines had covers over them.
I have since googled this meteor company and have found loads of posts from people who like me have seen the barriers all taped up and assumed that charges must be suspended for the day.
Having Read these posts Meteor will be aware that having these entry barriers wrapped up gives the impression to drivers that they are out of order, which is why my error happened. This goes to conform what most have said here that they are a bunch of crooks as they could easily remove these posts if they chose to, but I guess that if they did that their revenue stream would be severly reduced. As I said in my first post I had no problem with paying to park there I wrongly assumed parking fees must have been suspended.

 

[LadySeagull]

I have used that car park twice when working away, i.e driven to my home town and got train to and from Falmer for speed and ease.

If people are saying that private car parks have no right to charge you and this is legally correct then happy days for everyone at the car park. However the signs are pretty clear about how it works, you call a phone number and register your number plate and pay per hour, its about £4 for an evening match, CCTV camaras are then monitoring the parking, peoples arrival and exit times.

There are 2 different 'charges' being discussed here.

- The car park can of course charge a fee for the parking provision and if it's too much then don't park there, if it's reasonable then pay it. No-one is saying otherwise.

- But the thing these firms call a 'Parking Charge Notice'? (LOL, only a coincidence of course that it looks like a Council ticket and shares the initials 'PCN'!). NEVER pay one!

I have ignored one from Euro Car Parks locally, I laughed at it and would be happy to collect more just to waste these parasites' money. Let's be clear, we are not talking for the most part about companies which maintain, own, clean, insure or do ANYTHING in these car parks except 'farm' car reg numbers to try to extort money - a very easy and lucrative business model which they pitch to the car park owners/retailers etc as a 'car park management service'. It's nothing of the sort, more like a protection racket.

Why are private parking charges not included as theft, just curious, garages use the same system it you use their services to buy petrol and then drive off without paying. May have to watch your video clips but currently working so will do so later...

Your example is where a company has sold a tangible item - petrol - and if a person doesn't pay then that's theft of the petrol. A definition of theft is to take without permission, with the intention to 'permanently deprive'.

This does not apply to someone parking in a car park where the signs are (very often deliberately) not clear enough or not seen, so that the person doesn't realise they should have paid anything. Particularly if barriers are up and there's not enough info in clear enough signs everywhere to tell you it's a P&D car park, it's not unreasonable to have an honest belief that you can park for free. Brighton Marina Car park is large but free, for instance.

In any case it's a civil matter and not a criminal one, a question of whether the 'contract' was clear and fair and the amount charge proportionate. Most private parking companies fail on both counts. Not many ever even bother with Court as they catch enough 'more-money-than-sense' - or plain daft - victims with their debt collector threatograms, but when they do:

Hetherington-Jakeman case

Martin Cutts case

Court of appeal Thurlow case

DEFINITELY WATCH THE WATCHDOG VIDEO ALREADY LINKED!!

 

[The Modfather]

Similiar thing happened to me a few months ago. Barrier was up, and no one manning the ticket kiosk in the car park.

Sign in the car park said that you could pay for the car parking when purchasing your train ticket, which I duly did.

Subsequently got a letter from a debt collector working on behalf of the car park company requesting £180, as I had not displayed a ticket. I was able to provide a copy of my receipt proving payment, but neither the car parking company, nor the debt collectors would accept this, and we were inundated with phone calls threatening legal action.

After discussing this with friends, relative, colleagues & business associates, I discovered that this is a well known scam. I would urge you not to consider paying this fine.

 

[Garage_Doors]

it's not unreasonable to have an honest belief that you can park for free

In a Main line commuter orientated Railway station car park.
Don't be silly.

 

[LadySeagull]

In a Main line commuter orientated Railway station car park.
Don't be silly.

It's a private car park - you think they don't have to make the signs clear to form a contract? Don't be silly.

 

[marshy68]

As I said when I got there the barriers were not working, I did not see any obvious signs and the booth outside not manned by anyone and the usual pay machines had covers over them.
I have since googled this meteor company and have found loads of posts from people who like me have seen the barriers all taped up and assumed that charges must be suspended for the day.
Having Read these posts Meteor will be aware that having these entry barriers wrapped up gives the impression to drivers that they are out of order, which is why my error happened. This goes to conform what most have said here that they are a bunch of crooks as they could easily remove these posts if they chose to, but I guess that if they did that their revenue stream would be severly reduced. As I said in my first post I had no problem with paying to park there I wrongly assumed parking fees must have been suspended.

there is a huge sign as you go in and signs all through the car park - but looks like you dont have to pay as the penalty is apparently unenforcible - so happy days.

 

[Garage_Doors]

It's a private car park - you think they don't have to make the signs clear to form a contract? Don't be silly.

Regardless of signage its a main line railway station car park and you think there is a possibility an honest belief that you can park for free?

You really are starting to lose any credibility for giving advice on car parking if you feel this.

 

[Westdene Wonder]

You do owe the company for parking on their property but if you choose not to pay i would advise against parking there again,there are some very tough people staffing these sites and they know your registration.

 

[Garage_Doors]

You do owe the company for parking on their property but if you choose not to pay i would advise against parking there again,there are some very tough people staffing these sites and they know your registration.

Very valid point. As they have the number plate recognition working I'm sure it would flag up as you enter that there is an outstanding fine against the vehicle.

 

[LadySeagull]

Very valid point. As they have the number plate recognition working I'm sure it would flag up as you enter that there is an outstanding fine against the vehicle.

Yawn, 'I am sure...blah blah' I will keep replying to you here because your posts on this subject are without knowledge and soooo unnecessarily alarmist!! What fine?

Though it is understandable that people who do not realise these fake PCNs are just hamster-cage-bedding might be worried, the post above yours did NOT make a valid point, unless we are talking about clampers which we are not.

You can return to a car park perfectly 'safely' when you have collected a fake PCN. I do so every week in a certain Supermarket car park where I got one - and Westdene Seagull and Max Shearwater have done the same. I would be most amused if I got another one and happily smile in the direction of the camera as I drive in.

Number plate recognition!! Errr...nope, in their dreams. Normal cameras, not ANPR. All Meteor did was take a normal photo and make a request to the DVLA, having paid £2.50 for the data. The fact they are 'allowed' to get that data doesn't give them some sort of 'authority', in fact it's well known that the DVLA sell our ownership data to all sorts of crims and we can't opt out:

DVLA selling drivers details to 'unscrupulous' car parking firms - Telegraph

All the OP has to do is ignore it and just play snap with the letters that will match the template pics shown on MSE here:

Private Parking Companies' Letters, Threats Court Papers - MoneySavingExpert.com Forums

And the OP can park in that car park again when they want (but should of course pay the P&D fee in future, now he knows - none of us anti-PPC posters suggested otherwise). People who post on the MSE parking forum have no beef against companies charging a reasonable fee to park, with signs that are clear. The issue is the fake PCNs, the impersonation of authority and the debt collector 'threatograms' as shown on that MSE link. Imagine if an elderly or vulnerable person got those letters - happens a lot and it's a total scam.

 

[The Oldman]

Just received a £90 penalty charge from a parking lot in the Norfolk Broads area. Thing is I did pay the right amount to park but I fear I entered wrongly the car registration by one letter.
Is it worth appealing or ignoring?

 

[BensGrandad]

Just received a £90 penalty charge from a parking lot in the Norfolk Broads area. Thing is I did pay the right amount to park but I fear I entered wrongly the car registration by one letter.
Is it worth appealing or ignoring?

It depends on the ownership of the land was it council or private. Council in general you cannot dispute other than continue on the route of disputing and taking it to a tribunal working on the principal that most councils opt out before that stage rather than have the hassle of a tribunal, and let you off with a warning. If its private in general just ignore it.

 

[Manx Shearwater]

Does it mention the Road Traffic Act, and is it called a Penalty Charge Notice?

If not, then its private, and the most they are entitled to is the financial losses incurred as a result of you entering your reg incorrectly, which is nowt, as you paid for their parking services.

You could be polite, and write back and let them know, but odds-on they will continue to demand payment of an extortionate amount which is legally unenforceable.

I would just ignore them, but that's me.

 

[Langley]

Send them a cheque for£00.00, tell them your solicitor wrote the cheque for you and charged you £90.00, hence you are forwarding the balance to them.

 

[The Oldman]

An update. The car park was operated by a private company but I did appeal by email explaining that I had incorrectly entered the registration number by one digit when purchasing the ticket. Within 24 hours received a reply saying they had checked their records and found my incorrect number and the penalty charge was cancelled. So, I am pleased to say not all these firms act unreasonably . Thanks for all the advice.

 

[The Wookiee]

So if these fines are not enforceable, and the advice given on here is to ignore them, does that mean people can just go and park there without paying ?

 

[Da Man Clay]

Send them a cheque for£00.00, tell them your solicitor wrote the cheque for you and charged you £90.00, hence you are forwarding the balance to them.

What on earth would that achieve?

 

[Lord Bracknell]

Number plate recognition!! Errr...nope, in their dreams. Normal cameras, not ANPR. All Meteor did was take a normal photo and make a request to the DVLA, having paid £2.50 for the data.

Errr... it's you that's wrong.

New ANPR technology for Brighton station car park : Southern


New ANPR technology for Brighton station car park

Date: 22 Jun 2010


From mid-July 2010 Southern will be introducing changes to payment options at the car park at Brighton Station, by introducing ground-breaking Automatic Number Plate Recognition (ANPR) technology, and smarter, more convenient ways to pay.

At the moment, paying for parking is controlled by a barrier system, but in July the barriers will be removed and car registration numbers will be recorded on entry and exit by an ANPR system. Occasional parking will be cheaper and more convenient, by introducing hourly parking for £1 and a full day’s parking reduced from £11 to £10.

Southern’s Business Development Manager, Matt Bunn said: “We are introducing the new technology at Brighton as it’s one of our busiest car parks and it’s a great opportunity for people to pay for their parking in a more convenient way.

Southern’s car park team will be available in the kiosk if car park users need any help or advice. They will also be able to take payment if users don’t want to use the new payment methods. The team will be on hand to help between 0500 and 2300 Monday to Saturday and between 09.00 and 17.00 on Sundays.

To ensure that we are getting it right, we will be surveying registered users for their views on the new system.

Leaflets explaining the new system are available at the station and from staff at the car park kiosk.

There will be four methods of paying for parking:

• Using a mobile phone by credit/debit card (hourly and day tickets only). This method will allow extra time to be purchased remotely should a customer know they are going to overstay the initial period of time they have paid for. Once registered, this can be done by text.

• Via a website customers will be able to purchase e-tickets (day, monthly and quarterly tickets only). This will allow customers to pre-book tickets before parking or on the day they park, as long as they purchase a ticket before midnight on the day they park. To purchase tickets via the web, customers need to log on to: southernrailwayparking.com

• Should customers not wish to use the other methods, tickets will also be available from the staffed kiosk in the car park using cash or card. Customers should pay as soon as they have parked their vehicle and state the period of time they wish to park for (hourly and day tickets only).

• Monthly, quarterly and annual season tickets will continue to be available at the ticket office and annual tickets must be purchased in this way. Monthly and quarterly season tickets will be available on the web.

There will no requirement to display anything in the customer’s windscreen to show they have paid to park.




Since Brighton Station car park is not "pay and display", there is no way that Meteor will be taking photos of cars when a ticket isn't displayed.

The original poster thought that the barriers weren't working - there are no barriers. He also couldn't find the pay machine - there isn't one; there's a kiosk. He obviously failed to read the signs, that tell him how to pay. Since this is a major car park at a prime location in central Brighton, with thousands of customers a day, I'd be very surprised if the signs about paying aren't easily visible.