Brighton giving young players ........

[Kinky Gerbil]

Bearing in mind that their wealth and (potential) fame is likely to provide them with more than average opportunities / temptation, it seems like a sound idea.

To rape?

 

[Hotchilidog]

While i don't have "Facts" in written term. I think you'll find it's pretty obvious with most of the cases shown/written in the media.

At cursory glance in 2012-13 only 31% of rape allegations were referred by the police to the CPS of these 60% resulted in convictions. So of the allegations made only around 15-20% actually resulted in a conviction. This hardly stacks up with your viewpoint. These are hardly figures that will give rape victims the confidence that their attackers will be brought to justice.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

You seem to be the one with difficulty in differentiating between the law and moral code: The law is a prescribed set of rules that we have to respect. Moral code is a personal set of rules, normally influenced by parental upbringing, by which we have a choice to follow.

You don't want to engage with me because, so far, I've provided more articulate response than any of your short quips, and you know that you're probably on a loser.

As for anger management. I'm struggling to see where on this thread I've responded disproportionality to your original suggestion that I need to undergo sexual consent training and some sort if moral guidance. That would be quite an insult to anyone.

Your moral code might well be what your patents passed on or whatever. But, my point is that there can be a big difference between personal moral code and what I would term generally accepted moral code. The way we should conduct ourselves isn't always prescribed by ourselves, more prescribed by society. Some things are generally accepted, some not. Some folk will have morals which are generally not acceptable in the 21st century. Just because someone feels it is okay to act a certain way doesn't make it right in the eyes of society. In this sense morals are not subjective.

 

[LeicesterGull]

Going to be on Radio 5 live after current interview.

on now

 

[brightn'ove]

The leverage that a woman's word has in court has far more weight on it than a mans ever does.

100% nonsense.

 

[nwgull]

Your moral code might well be what your patents passed on or whatever. But, my point is that there can be a big difference between personal moral code and what I would term generally accepted moral code. The way we should conduct ourselves isn't always prescribed by ourselves, more prescribed by society. Some things are generally accepted, some not. Some folk will have morals which are generally not acceptable in the 21st century. Just because someone feels it is okay to act a certain way doesn't make it right in the eyes of society. In this sense morals are not subjective.

Moral codes that are generally accepted throughout society tend to be enshrined in law. I follow these by default. Any other moral codes that I follow are my own choice, and I have enough conviction in these choices that I don't care about the opinion of 'society', whoever that is.

I don't have any particular moral beliefs that I think would upset many apple carts; however, I defy anyone to tell me that I have to act in a certain way because society says so. Anyone without the conviction to follow their own moral codes and does things only because they think it makes 'society' happy is weak.

And you still haven't explained why you think I need to attend a training course to explain the legalities relating consent to young people. Are you implying that I'm a rapist?

 

[Lady Whistledown]

While this is good in theory. Still won't stop certain women crying rape or whatever when it comes to trying to extort money from players or trying to get free publicity. Knowing the British judicial system it won't be much help as our laws rarely listen to the mans side of the story

That's an appalling argument- I barely even know where to start.

As I think- thankfully- several other posters have now pointed out, the (1) reporting and (2) conviction rate for rape in this country is absolutely abysmal, due to a number of factors. I think it's lower than pretty much any other reported crime. The hoops that victims have to jump through, often in hugely distressing circumstances, just to get somebody to court for a sexual allegation, can be incredibly traumatising (this applies to both male and female victims, I should add).

The fact is, a jury, as a rule, would far rather acquit a guilty man than convict an innocent one. If you think for one second that this world is filled with demon females looking for males to entrap and make false allegations against, you are grossly mistaken, and also, I'd add, insulting towards the female gender as a whole. The number of false allegations is absolutely tiny compared to the number of genuine offences which occur, but which, in most cases, aren't even reported, because the victim knows it will be her (or his) word against the attacker, and that the evidence necessary to convict somebody will be lacking.

In the course of my job, I've dealt with dozens of rape victims, mostly female, it has to be said, and I think there's only been one of those occasions when I've thought it things didn't seem to be quite as they'd been made out to be. "Rarely listen to the man's side of the story?". Jeez. Don't you dare imagine that our laws don't favour suspects/offenders in these matters: in the case of rape legislation, they favour the defendant more than in any other sort of crime. I believe there are many, many more unconvicted rapists walking around our streets than there are innocent guys locked up in jail.

Yes, I guess that sounds like a rant, but statements like yours really make me angry. Imagine your daughter came home and said a footballer (or any other man) had just forced himself upon her. Would your first reaction be to put your arm around her and call the police, or ask her if she was making it up "for publicity"?

(Well done the Albion, by the way, for hopefully educating their youngsters, male and female, in the ways of human decency and respect).

 

[GT49er]

To rape?

Congratulations on the silliest reply I've seen for ages! Opportunities / temptation for a legover of course, not rape. And learning when or when not it's appropriate to take the opportunity makes perfect sense.

 

[father_and_son]

What offends me on this thread is the self appointed moral high ground and presumption that all footballers are inherently thick with no sense of right or wrong, and that none of these lads will have had any sort of moral guidance from their parents.

I don't think that it is about moral high ground, the track record of professional footballers as a whole is pretty poor on both counts...

I would suggest that most of the lads entering the academies have decent parents and decent morals and a general understanding of right and wrong.

However, many then very quickly start to earn what is an annual salary every week and the money, ego and sense of entitlement starts to corrupt. When it all seems so easy and so much is offered to you on a plate, it must be easy to assume that EVERYTHING is on the plate for the taking. I do genuinely understand why moral compasses start to go so badly wrong - I can't condone it, but I see why it can happen. The off-spring of the very rich frequently have similar issues.

 

[Wrong-Direction]

 

[BensGrandad]

Well the parents of your generation didnt do a very good job, so why expect the parents of current footballers to be any different.

I wouldnt agree with your view of parents in the past I think it is more a question of what is acceptable has changed through the years. When my grandmother was a young lady if her husband said jump she asked how high but times have changed as have attitiudes. So as a parent you can only teach your children what is acceptable now not pre-empt what might not be in 20 years time in every avenue of life.

 

[Brighton Boy]

Should be bought into schools along with sex education in my view. Anything to make people more aware of these things is a positive.

On paper you would think that this is ridiculous but whether black or white rich or poor this is something when a touch more of educating could go a long way.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Anyone without the conviction to follow their own moral codes and does things only because they think it makes 'society' happy is weak.

You do talk some crap. I follow quite a lot of codes because of they make "society happy." It's called respect for others. For example swearing is one; I pick and chose my moments. I keep a check on specific language when in the presence of kids. Does this make me weak?

 

[nwgull]

You do talk some crap. I follow quite a lot of codes because of they make "society happy." It's called respect for others. For example swearing is one; I pick and chose my moments. I keep a check on specific language when in the presence of kids. Does this make me weak?

If you do it because you believe it's right to act this way then no, you're not weak.

Still waiting for you to explain to me why you think I need to go on a course aimed at at explaining sexual consent to teenagers. That really is a very offensive thing to suggest to someone, and you seem to be trying to avoid giving an answer. Are you too weak to admit that you can't?

 

[JBizzle]

I'm actually more embarrassed than proud about this. Are young footballers really that ****ing thick that they need to be taught these things? Some things about this sport really disgust me.

I wouldn't embarrassed, but you'd be right to be sad that this state of affairs exists. That said, pro footballers are generally brought up in a bubble when they get more or less whatever they want. This can obviously lead to a degree of entitlement that extends past material goods into, sadly, women. They never get told "no" by their clubs, agents, supporters, so sometimes react aggressively/inappropriately when told "no" by women.

The thing is though, it's only likely to be a minority of young footballers who have that attitude but the better educated they are, the less excuse they have for that behaviour. I actually think it should be mandatory at all clubs so well done BHAFC for taking a step in the right direction. It's good to see the club take a degree of social responsibility.

 

[Acker79]

That's an appalling argument- I barely even know where to start.

As I think- thankfully- several other posters have now pointed out, the (1) reporting and (2) conviction rate for rape in this country is absolutely abysmal, due to a number of factors. I think it's lower than pretty much any other reported crime. The hoops that victims have to jump through, often in hugely distressing circumstances, just to get somebody to court for a sexual allegation, can be incredibly traumatising (this applies to both male and female victims, I should add).

The fact is, a jury, as a rule, would far rather acquit a guilty man than convict an innocent one. If you think for one second that this world is filled with demon females looking for males to entrap and make false allegations against, you are grossly mistaken, and also, I'd add, insulting towards the female gender as a whole. The number of false allegations is absolutely tiny compared to the number of genuine offences which occur, but which, in most cases, aren't even reported, because the victim knows it will be her (or his) word against the attacker, and that the evidence necessary to convict somebody will be lacking.

In the course of my job, I've dealt with dozens of rape victims, mostly female, it has to be said, and I think there's only been one of those occasions when I've thought it things didn't seem to be quite as they'd been made out to be. "Rarely listen to the man's side of the story?". Jeez. Don't you dare imagine that our laws don't favour suspects/offenders in these matters: in the case of rape legislation, they favour the defendant more than in any other sort of crime. I believe there are many, many more unconvicted rapists walking around our streets than there are innocent guys locked up in jail.

Yes, I guess that sounds like a rant, but statements like yours really make me angry. Imagine your daughter came home and said a footballer (or any other man) had just forced himself upon her. Would your first reaction be to put your arm around her and call the police, or ask her if she was making it up "for publicity"?

(Well done the Albion, by the way, for hopefully educating their youngsters, male and female, in the ways of human decency and respect).

I read NSC at work, but don't sign in because I know there will be comments like Stevetheseagull's that would pull me into a rant, and possibly a back and forth. Fortunately, by the time I get home I find someone else has responded. Steve's comments are really stupid, complete at odds with reality, and this response deserves to be bumped.

Should be bought into schools along with sex education in my view. Anything to make people more aware of these things is a positive.

On paper you would think that this is ridiculous but whether black or white rich or poor this is something when a touch more of educating could go a long way.

This, too. Though I would imagine there are a lot of people who would argue even on paper, it's needed, to counter the rape culture that pervades society.

 

[Papa Lazarou]

Not obvious to me. I think our courts (now) are fairly good at deciding the merits of a case without taking one side over the other based on their sex.

And (this may not be a fact, but I think it is) it's notoriously hard to get a guilty verdict in rape cases.

 

[Not Andy Naylor]

Well done indeed.

However- I know I'm being unfair extrapolating on a two minute clip of what the players got from the program, but I sincerely hope that it covered respect to women, and WHY some things are not okay, rather than just 'not getting into trouble' - that's a bit how it came across.

More information here: http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...ackling-sexual-assault-problems-10163254.html

 

[hans kraay fan club]

More information here: http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...ackling-sexual-assault-problems-10163254.html

Thanks