Brighton A&E doctor tells Prime Minister ‘you lied’ about NHS

[Hastings gull]

Our nuclear arsenal has been bugger all use in Malaya, Suez, The Falklands, Gulf (1 & 2), Afghanistan, Northern Ireland, Bosnia, Kosovo, Aden, Radfan, Oman, Dhofar, Kenya, Cyprus, Borneo, Korea or Vietnam. WE only have it so we can still act like Billy Big Bollocks at the UN. Time to get rid of it and spend some of the money on conventional forces and the rest on health and social care.

This is of course quite true, but none of these conflicts threatened the UK, as such. The idea is surely one of deterrent, and none of us can be sure that it has not deterred the Russians in the past. Personally I don't think that the Russians would have invaded Western Europe without the nuclear shield, but I could not be at all sure. Nowadays more and more countries are developing nuclear capability, some by no means as stable as the European democracies, and we might rue a decision to abandon ours. Whatever you think about it, our bargaining power would be significantly weaker without it.

Of course it is tempting to say -get rid and spend it elsewhere, notably on the NHS, but one might equally make out a case for
cutting out waste and fraud.

 

[beorhthelm]

loses political neutrality by trotting out the "1930s public sector cuts", so how much of the rest is embelishment for political ends?

end of the day, spending hasnt been cut on NHS. so what are the causes of problems? is it central government, is it NHS managment, is it public behaviour? its telling that the independently controlled NHS in Scotland and Wales are reportedly suffering the same issues. some of those issues seem played up though, acedotal evidence magnified and extrapolated out to a national trend. dont know what to believe on NHS anymore, its become far too politicised.

 

[Raleigh Chopper]

Watching the news this evening, what a joke Cameron is, since when has he cared about anything to do with the greens.
The sooner this prat is turfed out the better.

 

[Hampster Gull]

Politicians lie, whatever their colour

 

[jackanada]

Spending on the NHS has risen by 0.8% in real terms under the Tories, whether that money is being spent properly (too much management?)is open too question.

That spending includes the money we now pay to outsource various bits of the NHS to private companies, and the cost of compensating patients and fixing them up when it gets ballsed up. And yes there are now extra layers of management to facilitate carving up the NHS.

Think of it like the railways, we'll pay over the odds to private companies to do the easy bits - a sum which will increase above inflation year on year, we'll spend money keeping difficult parts in house and spend money compensating private companies when they **** up and bailing them out after they've spunked all the money they were given on share dividends, bonuses and further outsourcing to other companies that share directors and ownership. Retail space in A&E will be markedly increased though, so I dont know where they will store patients being kept on trolleys are beds are blocked by the elderly who can't be taken away because all the care homes have been privatised and will only take patients they can make a healthy margin on.

If I had religion I would inform anyone of thinking of voting tory that they are going to hell.

 

[cunning fergus]

From a horse's mouth, so to speak.

http://www.brightonandhovenews.org/...octor-tells-prime-minister-you-lied-about-nhs

DC does not want the NHS becoming a big issue at the election...

Jacqueline Bishop and Professor Thomas have some interesting things to say about he NHS too.

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201314/cmpublic/immigration/131029/am/131029s01.htm

The demand on the NHS these days is unprecedented...............it's not just as simple as funding.

 

[happypig]

This is of course quite true, but none of these conflicts threatened the UK, as such. The idea is surely one of deterrent, and none of us can be sure that it has not deterred the Russians in the past. Personally I don't think that the Russians would have invaded Western Europe without the nuclear shield, but I could not be at all sure. Nowadays more and more countries are developing nuclear capability, some by no means as stable as the European democracies, and we might rue a decision to abandon ours. Whatever you think about it, our bargaining power would be significantly weaker without it.

Would it though ? Is there any situation where we could justify launching a trident missile and killing tens of thousands of civilians ?

 

[spring hall convert]

Jacqueline Bishop and Professor Thomas have some interesting things to say about he NHS too.

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201314/cmpublic/immigration/131029/am/131029s01.htm

The demand on the NHS these days is unprecedented...............it's not just as simple as funding.

Throw me a bone - tl:dr. Saw the title, can assume where it's going.... what are the edited highlights?

 

[cunning fergus]

Throw me a bone - tl:dr. Saw the title, can assume where it's going.... what are the edited highlights?

Sure, as with most matters the devil is in the detail, as a cross party parliamentary document made public it is an insight into the workings of Govt.

In short because no one monitors who accesses the NHS it is not possible to state what the cost to the British tax payer is, however there is evidence that systematic fraud of the NHS is taking place.

The NHS works in such a way that it lends itself to fraud, yet there is no motivation to deal with it because this would in itself be another cost.

The answer from the politicians (cross party) is to ignore it and continue to fund the NHS at any cost.

From Professor Thomas who heads the Ocology Dept at the Royal Marsden.

"We need to look at some HIV units and see who is having HIV treatment, especially since the changing of the rule on 1 October 2012, after which anyone coming into this country can have free HIV treatment. One of the scary, scary, scary statistics I have uncovered recently is that, in London, we spend twice as much on anti-HIV treatment as we do on anti-cancer chemotherapy. That is a very scary statistic."

I suspect the British taxpayers would be surprised with that fact too............true?

 

[Machiavelli]

Does any other nation in Europe operate a NHS type system? If so I wonder how much it cost per head of population and how we compare?

Maybe we are underfunding or maybe we are throwing to much money into a bucket with holes in it?

NHS spending is comparatively low, when compared to other affluent countries. It's especially low -- a decade ago, it was about half -- when compared with the US (7.5% versus 15% of GDP). They don't want you to know this, because it rather jars with the neoliberal narrative that the public sector is inefficient, sclerotic and cumbersome; in stark contrast to the swashbuckling private sector that delivers so much more 'choice' for less money.

 

[Machiavelli]

loses political neutrality by trotting out the "1930s public sector cuts", so how much of the rest is embelishment for political ends?

end of the day, spending hasnt been cut on NHS. so what are the causes of problems? is it central government, is it NHS managment, is it public behaviour? its telling that the independently controlled NHS in Scotland and Wales are reportedly suffering the same issues. some of those issues seem played up though, acedotal evidence magnified and extrapolated out to a national trend. dont know what to believe on NHS anymore, its become far too politicised.

It hasn't. And this is something that Cameron, Osborne and Hunt like to trot out. The problem with it is that demand for the NHS has been increasing at the rate of 4% per annum. That amounts to all sorts of problems over a five year period, as is now panning out. Lucky Tories have (thus far) got away with a mild winter (as they have done over the past year or two). A prolonged cold period over the next month or two, and you haven't seen anything yet on the NHS.
This spending disparity had no real chance with the shrink-the-state agenda launched by Osborne, using the deficit as cover to do so.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

It hasn't. And this is something that Cameron, Osborne and Hunt like to trot out. The problem with it is that demand for the NHS has been increasing at the rate of 4% per annum. That amounts to all sorts of problems over a five year period, as is now panning out. Lucky Tories have (thus far) got away with a mild winter (as they have done over the past year or two). A prolonged cold period over the next month or two, and you haven't seen anything yet on the NHS.
This spending disparity had no real chance with the shrink-the-state agenda launched by Osborne, using the deficit as cover to do so.

This, this, this.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Jacqueline Bishop and Professor Thomas have some interesting things to say about he NHS too.

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201314/cmpublic/immigration/131029/am/131029s01.htm

The demand on the NHS these days is unprecedented...............it's not just as simple as funding.

Damn, it's all our fault.

 

[Triggaaar]

From a horse's mouth, so to speak.

For balance, here's another bit from the horse's mouth, so to speak:

My works in Brighton for the NHS, and this weeks she's had to spend a couple of days in working at Worthing A&E as an emergency. At first it was our impression that there was a crisis. but in hindsight we find she was not needed there at all. The most severer patient she had to help was a lady who was a bit unsteady on her feet. Her opinion is that she was never needed there, and she was sent due to politics.

 

[virtual22]

Sadly the thing that's going to swing my vote is Europe and a promise of a referendum. As we get told so much, we live in a democracy and it's time we had a vote on this to shut everyone up and either get behind it or get out. Millibars and Balls are terrified of the public actually voting to leave so don't give us a vote.

Either come out and say it's not a democracy, or give us a vote. But don't keep lying ffs!

I think whoever gets in will feed their own self interests, the NHS will still be shit, taxes will be too high and money will get pissed up the wall on complete bollocks.

 

[spring hall convert]

In short because no one monitors who accesses the NHS it is not possible to state what the cost to the British tax payer is, however there is evidence that systematic fraud of the NHS is taking place.

The NHS works in such a way that it lends itself to fraud, yet there is no motivation to deal with it because this would in itself be another cost.

I believe it. You'd be amazed at some of the things numbers are not kept on in this country - children who disappear from care for instance.

Clearly that cancer/HIV comparison is very politically sensitive but HIV is an expensive thing to treat. We certainly shouldn't have people coming to this country, who haven't contributed specifically for that treatment.

What would you do about it? (I have a feeling leaving Europe is going to be somewhere in there!)

 

[spring hall convert]

For balance, here's another bit from the horse's mouth, so to speak:

My works in Brighton for the NHS, and this weeks she's had to spend a couple of days in working at Worthing A&E as an emergency. At first it was our impression that there was a crisis. but in hindsight we find she was not needed there at all. The most severer patient she had to help was a lady who was a bit unsteady on her feet. Her opinion is that she was never needed there, and she was sent due to politics.

Well that's something we have in common. Mine's experience over the last 2 weeks has been somewhat different, hence my slightly vested interest.

 

[Guinness Boy]

I believe it. You'd be amazed at some of the things numbers are not kept on in this country - children who disappear from care for instance.

Clearly that cancer/HIV comparison is very politically sensitive but HIV is an expensive thing to treat. We certainly shouldn't have people coming to this country, who haven't contributed specifically for that treatment.

What would you do about it? (I have a feeling leaving Europe is going to be somewhere in there!)

The OP talks about A&E specifically though. HIV tourism may be another additional strain on the overall budget but in every other respect it is separate to the issue in the OP. So let's think why A&E admissions might be increasing. Population growth due to both birth rate and immigration would be an issue nationally but the anti-immigration lot on here are always keen to point out that there is no such problem in Brighton and "we don't know what it's like". The DFLs are just replacing the locals. It seems to be that reductions in social care are just as much to blame at both ends. Vulnerable families left to their own devices, less budget for home care, the stress brought on by things like the bedroom tax and a crumbling public transport infrastructure may be just as much to blame for the A&E crisis as a couple of Bulgarians popping over for anti virals and the constraints on social care also mean the patient can't be moved back on, causing the exact log jam described in the article.

 

[spring hall convert]

The OP talks about A&E specifically though. HIV tourism may be another additional strain on the overall budget but in every other respect it is separate to the issue in the OP. So let's think why A&E admissions might be increasing. Population growth due to both birth rate and immigration would be an issue nationally but the anti-immigration lot on here are always keen to point out that there is no such problem in Brighton and "we don't know what it's like". The DFLs are just replacing the locals. It seems to be that reductions in social care are just as much to blame at both ends. Vulnerable families left to their own devices, less budget for home care, the stress brought on by things like the bedroom tax and a crumbling public transport infrastructure may be just as much to blame for the A&E crisis as a couple of Bulgarians popping over for anti virals and the constraints on social care also mean the patient can't be moved back on, causing the exact log jam described in the article.

Understood but also there is some validity when you think about the NHS as a whole, what happens in one area surely has impact on available budgets for another. The social care point appears to me to be a huge issue from both anecdotal and first hand evidence. I like Burnham's idea around combining the budgets, it will emphasise the direct and symbioitic relationships they have with each other. Anecdotally, the ward my other half works on has around 27 places, last night 22 were fit to be discharged but had nowhere to go.

 

[beorhthelm]

...The problem with it is that demand for the NHS has been increasing at the rate of 4% per annum. That amounts to all sorts of problems over a five year period, as is now panning out.

the conventional wisdom is that demand is increasing, but 4% sounds very high - wheres this sourced from? that would amount to over 15% this parliament. is that that from a standing start, i.e. what was the rate of increase prior to 2010? the stats in this area are very suspect, partially due to politicisation and partially due to different methods of counting. for example, comparing to US is utterly redundant without a paragraph of caveats, as their system is different and the way spending is allocated is different. even here it changes depending what you include and exclude in your heading, "health care" spending is 18% of GDP.

back to the demand increase, where's it coming from, what can be done to address that? constant belly-aching over a few £billion here or there of NHS budget isnt going to solve much if it gets eaten in inefficiencies or the problems lie elsewhere.