[Politics] Brexit

[Kinky Gerbil]

Farage: “The reason Brexit party voters aren’t going to go back en masse to the Conservatives is we just don’t trust the Conservative party and we don’t trust Boris Johnson...Is Boris truly a Brexiteer?”

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Why? He voted for May's deal the last time.

JRM did?

Yes, the very last time on 29th March apparently, whereas all the other times he voted against it.

https://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/24926/jacob_rees-mogg/north_east_somerset/divisions?policy=6761

 

[beorhthelm]

To be honest, it strikes me that the deal May got was as fair as it could have been given her red lines. She got most of what she wanted, out of the customs union, free movement, and so on. The EU would far rather we kept both these aspects whilst still leaving (EFTA / Norway, etc). So, most of the 'give' was on their side anyway - all they really held out for was no hard border in Ireland, and May's answer to this was the backstop. So, when you say that the EU would be pressured into agreeing a deal that's fair for both sides, implicitly implying that we were getting the worst of the deal - what do you actually mean? Honest question, not having a dig.

this summary missed the detail that the open ended nature of the backstop is the sticking point. there is no mechanism for an end if the EU deem any solution is not suitable. its like agreeing to stay in the EU without article 50, fairly obvious that not going to work for leave.

 

[Bodian]

I'm not so sure. Mog and co were against the first deal, but now they're concerned they'll lose Brexit altogether, so they're more likely to accept something soft.

What if they tweak it to make it sound like it was their idea? I think that's the best way forward.

I think I agree that something like this may well happen. It gets us all out of this hole that has been dug, and everyone can claim to have 'won' in some way or another.

 

[Grombleton]

Farage: “If someone makes you a promise and knowingly breaks it I think that is betrayal and we should call it what it is...The real surrender would not be the Hillary Benn Act, the real surrender would be to sign us up to a terrible deal, with no voice, no vote, no veto.”


Boris is not brexity enough for Farage now....

The irony being that when he was an MEP, he rarely bothered showing up. If he had, he would have had a voice.

I still don't understand how anyone can align themselves to that opportunistic *****tain.

 

[Triggaaar]

JRM did?

Yes (the evil ****er that he is)

 

[theonlymikey]

#ResignJoSwinson currently trending on Twitter.

What's alarming from the posts is that apparently she voted with the Tory whip more times than Gove, Mogg & IDS.

Can't see them doing well in any election when Labour get their teeth into her voting records.

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

 

[Seaber]

I think I agree that something like this may well happen. It gets us all out of this hole that has been dug, and everyone can claim to have 'won' in some way or another.

Bringing back a slightly revised May deal, passed off as a new, improved, Boris one, is a card the Government could play, and probably will if they can't get round the Benn act.

As a side note, I don't think they can get roung it. It's watertight as I understand it, there is no legal reason the Gov can frustrate it. Even if they try, the time it would waste wouldn't be enough to force through No Deal. So I think we're safe from that eventuality.

But let's say they bring it back, will it get through? Will the Brexiteers go for it because they're scared they'd lose Brexit? Will the Opposition see they may have a chance of negotiating a softer Brexit in a few weeks?

 

[daveinplzen]

Bringing back a slightly revised May deal, passed off as a new, improved, Boris one, is a card the Government could play, and probably will if they can't get round the Benn act.

As a side note, I don't think they can get roung it. It's watertight as I understand it, there is no legal reason the Gov can frustrate it. Even if they try, the time it would waste wouldn't be enough to force through No Deal. So I think we're safe from that eventuality.

But let's say they bring it back, will it get through? Will the Brexiteers go for it because they're scared they'd lose Brexit? Will the Opposition see they may have a chance of negotiating a softer Brexit in a few weeks?

For Brexiteers, winning is far more Important than the country, as shown on this thread time and again

 

[The Clamp]

Show me anywhere on this thread or others where I want brexit.

Go read what I have posted and get back to me.

Both remain and leave are liars but the bullshit continues.

I believe in democracy wether we voted leave or remain abide by the vote.

What’s the effing point in voting in the future if it’s not upheld.

If it turns out to be disastrous after we/if leave then go for the idiots who voted leave.

Again I suggest everyone reads the treaties we have signed up to that were not passed by parliament and we was not given a vote on.

For a person who failed to cast a vote in what was probably the single most important vote in your lifetime, you sure bang on about your vote counting in the future.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Most disturbingly for Number 10, I asked even if Boris Johnson ran on an election promising *no deal* everyone I spoke to still said they wouldn’t vote for him but would stick with the Brexit Party. They just don’t trust him.

Via twitter.


Got to think going in for an election may not be the correct idea

 

[rigton70]

For a person who failed to cast a vote in what was probably the single most important vote in your lifetime, you sure bang on about your vote counting in the future.

Again go read what the treaties really mean especially the last one we signed.

I didn’t vote because I was undecided and that’s my choice I thought we lived in a democracy so I can choose to vote or not.

It would not surprise me if we had a second vote with the same options as the first vote we still voted to leave.

Makes me wonder then what the remainers would do then.

 

[The Clamp]

Again go read what the treaties really mean especially the last one we signed.

I didn’t vote because I was undecided and that’s my choice I thought we lived in a democracy so I can choose to vote or not.

It would not surprise me if we had a second vote with the same options as the first vote we still voted to leave.

Makes me wonder then what the remainers would do then.

Dodgy logic, but okay.
I wouldn’t bet against a second referendum turning up a Leave result again. That’s why I’m for the outright revoking of A50. The 2016 referendum was not binding, it’s been proven Brexit can’t work and would ruin the U.K. if implemented.
But yeah, we probably will leave at some point but nobody will ever convince me it’s the right thing to do or that the referendum wasn’t advisory and that it wasn’t corrupt as Hell.

 

[clapham_gull]

I was undecided until the morning of the vote.

My "problem" with the EU, is more of an acceptance that psychologically this country had a different reaction to the aftermath of the Second World War.

The EU wants to integrate Europe so closely economically so our inter-dependency means another war could never happen.

In the UK we are different psychologically because 1) we "won" 2) we weren't invaded and 3) didn't experience the WWII "aftershock" of communism.

That leads to bollocks from our MPs telling us that German car manufacturers will bend over backwards to sell cars to us. Misunderstands the German psyche. They are more interested in making sure WWII doesn't happen again than selling cars.

We've never really understood them and they don't really understand us. I've also considered the EU to be a frankly very white European club that talks about no borders, but it quite happy to build a huge ****ing border around itself.

Mmmmm I thought. Could the UK (being very very canny) could be very successful outside of the UK ? Yes it can....

However, I was also taken a very keen eye on what was happening in the Tory Party. The rise of Neo Liberalism, those wankers in the ERG. If I voted out, who would I be throwing the ball ?

The reality is, Brexit had been hijacked just like UKIP had been hijacked by Farage previously. The party originally was never obsessed with immigration.

So that's why I voted remain because the likes of Rees Mogg, Raab, Truss, Cummings, Farage, Gove, Patel aren't a*******s because of Brexit, they are just a*******s.

They no more represent the true wishes of leavers, than they do who voted for remain. It was just an opportunity for them to take.

Brexiteers really need to swallow this. It isn't about you not knowing what you voted for. It's about those you voted for, not giving a **** what you voted for.

You've been played.

 

[Triggaaar]

Brexiteers really need to swallow this. It isn't about you not knowing what you voted for. It's about those you voted for, not giving a **** what you voted for.

Those who voted in the referendum didn't vote for people. Boris and co. weren't in charge then and indeed we've even had a general election since then.

You've been played.

This seems like a weird childish insult.

 

[clapham_gull]

Those who voted in the referendum didn't vote for people. Boris and co. weren't in charge then and indeed we've even had a general election since then.

This seems like a weird childish insult.

I'd suggest an educated one, that a child may disagree with.

They voted for what people said and those people are now in power.

Raab. Truss, Johnson. Gove, In fact anyone who believed otherwise is a "traitor".

They have been played, which is why (understandably) Farage is frothing at the mouth.

Brexit was sold as a combination of a return to Sovereignty and a halt to uncontrolled immigration.

The reality is that OUR current system is bonkers and made up on the hoof (have you been awake for the last few months ?) and the current Government rather than close the borders have chucked away the quotas.

I'm really sorry. The two major tent poles of Brexit have either been proven to be bollocks or blown away.

I've never really been of the opinion that Brexiteers didn't know what they voted for, they did.

Just more of the opinion that the Neo Liberal branch of the Tory party had a very different vision. If you appropriate someone else's to get where you want to go, it's no surprise it all ****s ups.

Come on, they've employed a pro immigration, pro freedom of movement chancer wrong-un to carry it out. Backed up by a disaster advisor who fell out with Farage because he always wanted a referendum post deal.

 

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

Well said, sir.

The lunacy of the pro Brexit position was again revealed last night when Kwasi Kwateng compared anyone who demonstrated against a thwarted Brexit to the people in Hong Kong demonstrating against the Chinese hegemony. There are people - and unfortunately they are minding the shop - who have such a distorted view of the EU and what it stands for that they would do anything. Gone are the relatively benign days of mocking straight bananas and lionising the idiotic 'metric martyrs' - these are more sinister forces. It's those who 'were played' who have given them the cloak of 'democracy' to pursue their ends.

 

[Klaas]

Well said, sir.

The lunacy of the pro Brexit position was again revealed last night when Kwasi Kwateng compared anyone who demonstrated against a thwarted Brexit to the people in Hong Kong demonstrating against the Chinese hegemony. There are people - and unfortunately they are minding the shop - who have such a distorted view of the EU and what it stands for that they would do anything. Gone are the relatively benign days of mocking straight bananas and lionising the idiotic 'metric martyrs' - these are more sinister forces. It's those who 'were played' who have given them the cloak of 'democracy' to pursue their ends.

Well said yourself sir too.

 

[Hampster Gull]

Again go read what the treaties really mean especially the last one we signed.

I didn’t vote because I was undecided and that’s my choice I thought we lived in a democracy so I can choose to vote or not.

It would not surprise me if we had a second vote with the same options as the first vote we still voted to leave.

Makes me wonder then what the remainers would do then.

Voting is compulsory in Australia and that’s a democracy, albeit full of load mouth Aussies

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Lol so after saying YOU would look it up you are now asking me too.

Was there a parliamentary vote yes or no?

I'll answer for TB - yes there were votes in parliament for the treaties. To touch on your previous post the Labour government promised a public vote on the Lisbon Treaty but lied - they clearly didn't trust the public .... sound familiar ?