[Politics] Brexit

[birthofanorange]

The deal on offer has been in the news and talked about a fair bit, its been voted down 3 times. Entirely possible to bring it forward again as a motion in a new parliamentary session or even directly as legislation. Its the one with the withdrawal section that the EU have said is the only version available and cant be opened for negotiation.
Come on,if you dont want a no deal exit.... shout out..... Take the deal on offer!!!!

But that one doesn't work...find a new one that does. No deal is not acceptable to the majority of people.

If I accept Leaving, I want that easy/best/wonderful deal that was promised during the campaign. Can it not be delivered?

 

[bha100]

From time to time certain politicians disappear for reasons unknown from any media, but at such a crucial time for the country where the feck has Jeremy Hunt for the blues and Tom Watson for the reds gone, not seen sight nor sound of either of them, anyone seen them?

 

[Eeyore]

There will, shortly, be an announcement of a Conservative / Brexit Party alliance in the forthcoming November 1 General Election. Boris PM, Nigel deputy PM.

 

[pastafarian]

But that one doesn't work...find a new one that does. No deal is not acceptable to the majority of people.

If I accept Leaving, I want that easy/best/wonderful deal that was promised during the campaign. Can it not be delivered?

Its not up to you to decide if it still doesn’t work or not. Why not let parliament decide again if it works for them now or not, instead of you saying it doesn’t work. Surely you are not against giving parliament the opportunity to decide that. It is their job after all to sort out the details of leaving from the instruction given to Leave, not mine or your job. Sounds suspiciously like you don’t want them to even be allowed to have another stab at it.
The fact that you say “if” I accept leaving suggests you havnt even reached the stage of accepting the decision given to Leave yet.
As plenty of remainers have pointed out, the deal on offer fulfils the ballot question, They themselves have said it is leaving the EU as promised, (and also said the ERG alone screwed it up for everyone…....apparently)
There is no other deal on offer, if you don’t want a no deal exit (which will rear its head again at a later date) accept the deal that the EU and UK has negotiated. These are the only current two options for leaving. Come on, don’t be one of those no deal enablers.
Take the deal on offer…….you can say it, no one is listening.

 

[Razzoo]

From time to time certain politicians disappear for reasons unknown from any media, but at such a crucial time for the country where the feck has Jeremy Hunt for the blues and Tom Watson for the reds gone, not seen sight nor sound of either of them, anyone seen them?

No, but I can't say a) I noticed or b) I missed them.

 

[wellquickwoody]

https://images.app.goo.gl/XLZsnPLVcb2EugkW8


?

The Royals have had no choice on a number of occassions over meeting IRA scum who murdered one of their own. The traitor Corbyn has been cosying up to various enemies of the UK for over 40 years or more.

 

[Chicken Run]

No, unicorns w+nk, I do believe in democracy though.

Shame we have so many that don't on this thread and in parliament though.

Shame on you.

Leave means leave.

Never saw that bottom stat, to the uneducated thicko here it seems the bottom line in that graphic is the issue.

 

[Klaas]

For the last 20 years+ I've worked for the same large employer in Brighton & Hove. On a weekly basis, I must converse (at some point) with probably 100 different employees. During this 20+ years, the only time I have heard anyone mention the EU, was in praise of the Worker's Rights....no mention ever of any discontentment/losing control/bent bananas/sovereignty etc..etc.
Suddenly, three and a bit years ago, *something* turned a lot of them into frothing-at-the-mouth Farage/Brexit supporters, who bear no resemblance to the people I knew before.
Each day, I half expect Donald Sutherland to appear, screaming and pointing at the rest of us 'remainers', like something from 'Invasion of the Bodysnatchers'.
I can only guess that these people had some kind of strange unhappiness about the way their life was going (other than the usual worries that most of us face), but it truly was so freaky how they suddenly 'turned', for want of a better word.
Some have almost got to Ppf levels of weirdness, and I don't talk to them anymore....which is kinda weird, but also necessary.
I must also say, in all honesty, that a lot of them swallow up the 'goodies' supplied by The Sun, Mail (insert nonsense of choice) and especially the absolute shite that is freely available on social media.
Seriously, it's like some of them are possessed.
The funny thing is, most of them laughed at the idea of Trump becoming POTUS, and now...? Wowsers.

I know what you mean. Someone who was a pretty good friend just seemed to go brexit mental about 5 years ago. Sadly that also saw him start to consume and share other distinctly dodgy stuff from the ol' internet, and appear very angry all the time. We've kind of lost touch these days.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

unicorns w+nk

I would have thought that was a bit difficult with hooves.

 

[vegster]

The Royals have had no choice on a number of occassions over meeting IRA scum who murdered one of their own. The traitor Corbyn has been cosying up to various enemies of the UK for over 40 years or more.

Well done, your programming is complete.

 

[Lever]

No, unicorns w+nk, I do believe in democracy though.

Shame we have so many that don't on this thread and in parliament though.

Shame on you.

Leave means leave.

Disappointingly limp response Mouldy, but you managed to be a little less menacing in your language. Democratic options for the 52% and not the 48% is not democracy......

 

[birthofanorange]

Its not up to you to decide if it still doesn’t work or not. Why not let parliament decide again if it works for them now or not, instead of you saying it doesn’t work. Surely you are not against giving parliament the opportunity to decide that. It is their job after all to sort out the details of leaving from the instruction given to Leave, not mine or your job. Sounds suspiciously like you don’t want them to even be allowed to have another stab at it.
The fact that you say “if” I accept leaving suggests you havnt even reached the stage of accepting the decision given to Leave yet.
As plenty of remainers have pointed out, the deal on offer fulfils the ballot question, They themselves have said it is leaving the EU as promised, (and also said the ERG alone screwed it up for everyone…....apparently)
There is no other deal on offer, if you don’t want a no deal exit (which will rear its head again at a later date) accept the deal that the EU and UK has negotiated. These are the only current two options for leaving. Come on, don’t be one of those no deal enablers.
Take the deal on offer…….you can say it, no one is listening.

Oh well, if there isn't a better deal to be had, I guess we'd be better off staying put.
Wouldn't that be awful, eh?

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Oh well, if there isn't a better deal to be had, I guess we'd be better off staying put.
Wouldn't that be awful, eh?

There is a better deal.

The withdrawal agreement + EFTA membership with EEA access + a customs boundary in the Irish Sea and a Busingem type arrangement for NI.


Job done, we all live happily ever after.

 

[Baldseagull]

Here's what we've done.

We've taught young people, many for whom this whole debacle was their first view of how politics works, that it's Ok to reject a democratic result. Using arguments like "people didn't know what they were voting for", "the vote was based on lies, it was illegal" etc.

Fast forward a generation or two.

People will feel it's legitimate to refuse to accept the result of a general election in the same way. Maybe your guy or girl will win the election, and opponents, maybe even the actual opposing candidate and their party, will refuse to accept the result.

You will cry foul, you will hold up the principles of democracy and losers consent. Few will remember what that actually looks like, and those who do will point to this time, call you a hypocrite, tell you that you didn't know what you were voting for in the election, and carry on righteously declaring that despite the actual vote count, you didn't win, or if you did it doesn't matter.

Well done you.

Those who have done this have destroyed what so many fought and died for. We've lost it, not after some invasion, or some international conflict against fascists, but self inflicted. From within, to ourselves.

If you ever get a moment away from your self righteousness and hubris, and can for a moment seperate your politics from your principles and think clearly, just for a moment, I invite you to have a think about that.

I have had a think about that, and whilst I did, I remembered that you called me a snowflake drama queen just a week or so ago.
Apologies if this comes across as patronising, but you really don't know what you are talking about, try separating your politics from your principles and ask yourself if 17 million people voted for a No Deal Brexit, when the campaign said it would be the easiest deal in history, that it would be all upsides, no downsides, and that we would not leave without a deal.
There is no democratic mandate for a no deal Brexit, and that is all that has been stopped, in fact not even stopped, just not allowed to happen without Parliaments explicit consent, i.e. a democratic vote on it.

 

[WATFORD zero]

I just want to LEAVE you with the result of the vote that you are undemocraticly trying to take away from the people of this country.

In the meantime perhaps we should all take a week off of this thread, I am.

A day later

I said I would leave this thread alone this week but I just wanted to post this and you need to look back and think, are you becoming hysterical like konnie over project fear.

If you are perhaps you should spend some time and meditate.


https://www.thesun.co.uk/tvandshowbiz/9850971/piers-morgan-konnie-huq-brexit-rant/

2 days later

Makes me laugh how many leftie remainers will slag off Wetherspoons because off Tim Martins Brexit stance, but then most of NSC will be necking their beer and gobbling their burgers.
Your hypocrites at all you do.
Democrats my arse, the people decided and you will still support those visionless weak mp's up the road.
Unbelievable how you lot have supported these useless MPs, that have dragged their heels on following through what the people voted for, the cost and uncertainty to business is unmeasurable.
Shame on you.

9 hours later

Yes, I know I said a week, but there has been so much chumming up on here and I was starting to vomit.
Who said I was going to spill the blood?
Just wait it will happen the leaver has had enough.
Leave means leave.

Even Johnson leaves it longer than that between U-turns

 

[Baldseagull]

If i can remember 2016 and the weeks of campaigning Leave or Remain in the Media ,and the arguments on TV between politicians and questions by the Public i can`t recall everybody being told about this serious Referendum as being just advisory.

That is it's legal status, and always has been for referendums in the UK. The one exception is the referendum that could have been required under the European Union Act 2011, which gave a referendum legal force to prevent treaty changes between the EU and the UK.

 

[Seaber]

From time to time certain politicians disappear for reasons unknown from any media, but at such a crucial time for the country where the feck has Jeremy Hunt for the blues and Tom Watson for the reds gone, not seen sight nor sound of either of them, anyone seen them?

They've both been pretty quiet recently, I'd noticed Tom Watson wasn't on the Labour front bench, no idea where Jeremy Hunt normally sits now. Anyway, they've both been in Parliament and voted in all motions since summer recess, except for Tom Watson abstaining on the early election along with the rest of Labour.

Tom Watson has been around a lot on social media, his Twitter and Facebook are regularly updated and he has a blog on his website he updates. Jeremy Hunt has been much quieter, his most recent activity was his first in a couple of months when he posted on Twitter yesterday.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Here's what we've done.

We've taught young people, many for whom this whole debacle was their first view of how politics works, that it's Ok to reject a democratic result. Using arguments like "people didn't know what they were voting for", "the vote was based on lies, it was illegal" etc.

Fast forward a generation or two.

People will feel it's legitimate to refuse to accept the result of a general election in the same way. Maybe your guy or girl will win the election, and opponents, maybe even the actual opposing candidate and their party, will refuse to accept the result.

You will cry foul, you will hold up the principles of democracy and losers consent. Few will remember what that actually looks like, and those who do will point to this time, call you a hypocrite, tell you that you didn't know what you were voting for in the election, and carry on righteously declaring that despite the actual vote count, you didn't win, or if you did it doesn't matter.

Well done you.

Those who have done this have destroyed what so many fought and died for. We've lost it, not after some invasion, or some international conflict against fascists, but self inflicted. From within, to ourselves.

If you ever get a moment away from your self righteousness and hubris, and can for a moment seperate your politics from your principles and think clearly, just for a moment, I invite you to have a think about that.

I have made sure that both my kids understand the Parliamentary Democracy that governs this country, how it operates, and how to go about changing things. The last thing I would want is them getting upset by things they don't understand, and thinking it was out of their control.

(They also both understand what an advisory referendum is and why this particular one was called.)

They have also said that, if they have kids, they will ensure that they understand how the country that they live in will be governed, and I have every reason to believe they will. So it will be ok, for the next two generations at least.

Thanks for your concern, though

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

They've both been pretty quiet recently, I'd noticed Tom Watson wasn't on the Labour front bench, no idea where Jeremy Hunt normally sits now. Anyway, they've both been in Parliament and voted in all motions since summer recess, except for Tom Watson abstaining on the early election along with the rest of Labour.

Tom Watson has been around a lot on social media, his Twitter and Facebook are regularly updated and he has a blog on his website he updates. Jeremy Hunt has been much quieter, his most recent activity was his first in a couple of months when he posted on Twitter yesterday.

I think it is in Hunts best interest to stay quiet and away from the limelight - once this is all over he will be leading the pack to be next leader.

Same could be argued for Watson.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

For the last 20 years+ I've worked for the same large employer in Brighton & Hove. On a weekly basis, I must converse (at some point) with probably 100 different employees. During this 20+ years, the only time I have heard anyone mention the EU, was in praise of the Worker's Rights....no mention ever of any discontentment/losing control/bent bananas/sovereignty etc..etc.
Suddenly, three and a bit years ago, *something* turned a lot of them into frothing-at-the-mouth Farage/Brexit supporters, who bear no resemblance to the people I knew before.
Each day, I half expect Donald Sutherland to appear, screaming and pointing at the rest of us 'remainers', like something from 'Invasion of the Bodysnatchers'.
I can only guess that these people had some kind of strange unhappiness about the way their life was going (other than the usual worries that most of us face), but it truly was so freaky how they suddenly 'turned', for want of a better word.
Some have almost got to Ppf levels of weirdness, and I don't talk to them anymore....which is kinda weird, but also necessary.
I must also say, in all honesty, that a lot of them swallow up the 'goodies' supplied by The Sun, Mail (insert nonsense of choice) and especially the absolute shite that is freely available on social media.
Seriously, it's like some of them are possessed.
The funny thing is, most of them laughed at the idea of Trump becoming POTUS, and now...? Wowsers.

We all have some discontentment in our lives because nobody's lives are perfect. The proBrexit politicians who want to keep their millions hidden away in tax havens, or use hedge fund money, realised they could tap into that discontentment, by blaming 'them over there'.
The terrorist activities & refugee crisis helped them fuel the fears.

The remainers couldn't allay those fears and didn't do enough to publicise the benefits (and still don't), so it took hold.
I can't see it settling in my lifetime unfortunately.