[Politics] Brexit

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

A number of cabinet ministers also asking for the whip to be reinstated.

Amber Rudd, Nicky Morgan and Robert Buckland very very pissed off.

I'd imagine Cummings days are numbered.

All our days are numbered.

The Devil is in the detail of the number. I'm, hoping I have at least 6666. . . . .and Cumface has 6.

 

[portlock seagull]

There are those who say (and I'm one of them) that the main problem with the Brexit negotiations is that there hasn't been any coalition or compromise. It's been the Tory party alone and, what's more, the Tory party following a very narrow definition of Brexit.

I said years ago, on this thread, that Brexit should have been a cross-party effort as it would make it easier to get a deal through the house. A joint Tory/Labour Brexit would have passed months ago.

Understand where you’re coming from but was this ever really on the cards? Each party seems at war with itself never mind each other, so much so I can’t remember a time when they were united. Were they or was it ever thus?

 

[daveinplzen]

OK, I tried to be fair.

So it's....**** Boris and his mentalist lust for Brexit. **** him and his robot army of weasels, and his lary advisor who treats him like the bitch that he is. **** him and his ludicrous scapegoating of everyone from May to Corbyn, the media, Sebastian Coe and even my dead ancestors. What a foul foetid shitwinkle. May his own gall bladder rise up and suffocate him in a torrent of his own bile. The ****.

Good point, well made.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

They’ve been internally split into different factions for a while, as have the electorate voting for each, so it seems a matter of when rather than if 2 become 4, 5 or even 6 different entities. Hard to see how they can survive Brexit in current forms.

It could end up with a completely new parliament, time for reform.

 

[vegster]

OK, I tried to be fair.

So it's....**** Boris and his mentalist lust for Brexit. **** him and his robot army of weasels, and his lary advisor who treats him like the bitch that he is. **** him and his ludicrous scapegoating of everyone from May to Corbyn, the media, Sebastian Coe and even my dead ancestors. What a foul foetid shitwinkle. May his own gall bladder rise up and suffocate him in a torrent of his own bile. The ****.

Classic rant HWT, top bombing, could NEVER put you on ignore after this post, It's Gold/ Priceless !

 

[Gwylan]

Understand where you’re coming from but was this ever really on the cards? Each party seems at war with itself never mind each other, so much so I can’t remember a time when they were united. Were they or was it ever thus?

The Labour party split into the SDP nearly 40 years ago, that was a party certainly at war with itself. And then it expelled the Militant members a few years later. The Tories haven't been that extreme but Thatcher had her 'wets' to contend with and John Major had his '********', so it's not all been sweetness and light in that camp either.

But there was enough common ground between strands of the party to get a deal done.

No, it was never on the cards because May put party before country - she could have had a mixed negotiating team but had such a narrow vision of what would have worked. But imagine a team of, for example, Keir Starmer, Rory Stewart and Vince Cable - a prominent lawyer, a diplomat and an economist - working together - it could have achieved something,

Instead we had De Pfeffel, Thick as mince and Liam 'Easiest trade deal in history' Fox batting for our side - no wonder they were back in the paviliion before the lunch interval (or drinks interval in Mince's case)

 

[portlock seagull]

It could end up with a completely new parliament, time for reform.

Amen to that. You know, if someone called Guy Fawkes wanted access to the cellars I’d be tempted to let him pass today

 

[portlock seagull]

The Labour party split into the SDP nearly 40 years ago, that was a party certainly at war with itself. And then it expelled the Militant members a few years later. The Tories haven't been that extreme but Thatcher had her 'wets' to contend with and John Major had his '********', so it's not all been sweetness and light in that camp either.

But there was enough common ground between strands of the party to get a deal done.

No, it was never on the cards because May put party before country - she could have had a mixed negotiating team but had such a narrow vision of what would have worked. But imagine a team of, for example, Keir Starmer, Rory Stewart and Vince Cable - a prominent lawyer, a diplomat and an economist - working together - it could have achieved something,

Instead we had De Pfeffel, Thick as mince and Liam 'Easiest trade deal in history' Fox batting for our side - no wonder they were back in the paviliion before the lunch interval (or drinks interval in Mince's case)

Brilliant, sort of poetic!! You make a good case for another missed opportunity. We shall never know but may well have worked.

 

[Stato]

I knew Boris would come a cropper but I didn't imagine this rapidly or this heavily. 4-0

4-0 away to Man City was not a shameful result. 4-0 to Jeremy Corbyn is akin to our performance against Bournemouth.

The problem for Johnson is going to be that the strategy Cummings has given him is based on lying. He has to lie about the reasons for proroguing parliament, he has to lie to parliament saying that he is trying to negotiate a deal when he isn't, he has to lie about not wanting a general election, but having his hand forced. He now has to lie about not understanding why Labour stopped him having the election he says he doesn't want.

Now a lot of politics is about having your truth, not necessarily the truth believed. Both Cameron and Blair could get away with spin because they could be convincing liars when the need arose. Johnson is not a convincing liar and even his supporters' biggest concern about him is that he has an unavoidable reputation for dishonesty that has followed him throughout both his professional and his personal life. Giving him a strategy based on dishonesty simply highlights everyone's major concern about him.

 

[Wardy's twin]

What amazes me is the number of people who are blaming our MPs for this mess and think they should be got rid off without any thought of what or how they will be replaced nor do they understand that MPs are there to make decisions on what is in the best interests of the people i.e. they are not told what to do.

 

[The Clamp]

Not really interesting as to why its being shown now, not relevant to anything happening presently anyway.
If anyone is bonkers enough to think its happening now or just on the horizon that free and fair competitive elections will stop, free speech will be in the dustbin, most political opponents will be jailed, concentration camps will be built and undesirables will be disappearing in the night, then they probably need a straight jacket and a box of mattress protectors.
Probably interesting programme though, glad I set the series to record.

When people consider adhering to the outcome of a corrupt and possibly illegal referendum and when lunatics like Johnson start playing fast and loose with democracy and there are extreme, right wing, racist, opportunists like Farage lurking in the wings, you'd be mad not to be concerned. I'm not suggesting we are about to descend into some sort of Fourth Reich but as the documentary says, History does have lessons for us and there are parallels.

That aside, it is shaping up to be a very well made series. I recommend.

 

[Eeyore]

And people still refer to him as 'Boris' like a cuddly, benign cartoon figure delivering a village its morning post.

The media exercises control over people's psychology in such conspicuous yet mesmerising ways.

 

[Eeyore]

The Labour party split into the SDP nearly 40 years ago, that was a party certainly at war with itself. And then it expelled the Militant members a few years later. The Tories haven't been that extreme but Thatcher had her 'wets' to contend with and John Major had his '********', so it's not all been sweetness and light in that camp either.

But there was enough common ground between strands of the party to get a deal done.

No, it was never on the cards because May put party before country - she could have had a mixed negotiating team but had such a narrow vision of what would have worked. But imagine a team of, for example, Keir Starmer, Rory Stewart and Vince Cable - a prominent lawyer, a diplomat and an economist - working together - it could have achieved something,

Instead we had De Pfeffel, Thick as mince and Liam 'Easiest trade deal in history' Fox batting for our side - no wonder they were back in the paviliion before the lunch interval (or drinks interval in Mince's case)

I like what you say but, as Yanis said two years ago (and he knows the EU better than anyone), the mainland wanted this to fail.

Rory is a top mediator but you can't smash a brick wall with a pencil.

Nothing since has persuaded me otherwise.

 

[pastafarian]

When people consider adhering to the outcome of a corrupt and possibly illegal referendum and when lunatics like Johnson start playing fast and loose with democracy and there are extreme, right wing, racist, opportunists like Farage lurking in the wings, you'd be mad not to be concerned. I'm not suggesting we are about to descend into some sort of Fourth Reich but as the documentary says, History does have lessons for us and there are parallels.

That aside, it is shaping up to be a very well made series. I recommend.

I agree, just watched episode 1, we are nothing like Nazi Germany in the 30`s and no parallels to the rise of national socialism and the move toward a dictatorship . We can sleep nice and dry at night.......well some of us will be able to anyway.

 

[The Clamp]

I agree, just watched episode 1, we are nothing like Nazi Germany in the 30`s and no parallels to the rise of national socialism and the move toward a dictatorship . We can sleep nice and dry at night.......well some of us will be able to anyway.

The accusation that if a citizen doesn't agree with Brexit, they are unpatriotic.
The scapegoating of minorities and immigrants for problems caused by the elite and by government.
Attacking of minorities in the street.
Expulsion of party members that don't toe the line.
Scrapping of enshrined democratic procedures to impose the will of the leader.
Attempted scrapping of human rights act.
Lies and propaganda.

You'd have to be blind or wilfully ignorant not to draw some parallels.

 

[pastafarian]

The accusation that if a citizen doesn't agree with Brexit, they are unpatriotic.
The scapegoating of minorities and immigrants for problems caused by the elite and by government.
Attacking of minorities in the street.
Expulsion of party members that don't toe the line.
Scrapping of enshrined democratic procedures to impose the will of the leader.
Attempted scrapping of human rights act.
Lies and propaganda.

You'd have to be blind or wilfully ignorant not to draw some parallels.

Listing events that havnt happened or have occurred in exceptionally limited occurrences which can and do occur in any democratic country anyway if you bothered to look hard enough, does not mean their is a parallel shift resembling a national socialist dictatorship like 1930`s Germany.
You have always been a a bit of a bed wetter like this nibble and all you do is show up your own stupidity.
Get a grip of yourself you sounds like one of those pathetic snowflake millennials that screams " its just like Hitler" every time they dont get their own way. I dont know how people like you get out of bed from the worry you are clearly exhibiting.
All those democratic votes and debates in parliament the last two days.......only an idiot would be sitting at home watching it and saying "you know what Maureen, its just more parallels every day to Nazi Germany"

 

[The Clamp]

Listing events that havnt happened or have occurred in exceptionally limited occurrences which can and do occur in any democratic country anyway if you bothered to look hard enough, does not mean their is a parallel shift resembling a national socialist dictatorship like 1930`s Germany.
You have always been a a bit of a bed wetter like this nibble and all you do is show up your own stupidity.
Get a grip of yourself you sounds like one of those pathetic snowflake millennials that screams " its just like Hitler" every time they dont get their own way. I dont know how people like you get out of bed from the worry you are clearly exhibiting.
All those democratic votes and debates in parliament the last two days.......only an idiot would be sitting at home watching it and saying "you know what Maureen, its just more parallels every day to Nazi Germany"

You're just taking it too far. I didn't say we are like Germany in 1930. I said History teaches us to be aware of parallels. It's good to sea democracy triumphing over undemocratic loons like Johnson.
I think you're better off going back to that plastic hooligan thread. It was rather sweet reading you and Ppf pretending to have friends and exchanging tales of pwoper nawty biznis on the terraces. There was a sort of naive charm to it all despite it all being such obvious bullshit. Marginally less embarrassing for you than trying to pass yourself off as a sentient adult on here.

 

[Klaas]

Listing events that havnt happened

Which events that clamp has mentioned haven't happened?

 

[pastafarian]

You're just taking it too far. I didn't say we are like Germany in 1930. I said History teaches us to be aware of parallels. It's good to sea democracy triumphing over undemocratic loons like Johnson.
I think you're better off going back to that plastic hooligan thread. It was rather sweet reading you and Ppf pretending to have friends and exchanging tales of pwoper nawty biznis on the terraces. There was a sort of naive charm to it all despite it all being such obvious bullshit. Marginally less embarrassing for you than trying to pass yourself off as a sentient adult on here.

snigger
one comment i think, to someone (not ppf) who seems to know the same person as me and wasnt about pwoper nawty biznis on the terraces either. One tends to meet an awful lot of characters over the decades especially when travelling away. half the fun of going to football and meeting new people. You should actually try going to football one week.

 

[pastafarian]

Which events that clamp has mentioned haven't happened?

Which democratic procedures have been scrapped by Johnson to impose the will of the leader?